Text 283, 140 rader
Skriven 2005-05-11 18:19:48 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
    Kommentar till text 270 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Re: Chinese in FidoNet
==============================
*** Quoting Michiel van der Vlist from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***

 >> had some 10 or so .ch echos out here.  Reputed to be in
 >> chinese.  How did they do it?  I do not know.

MvdV>> SO you have never actually seen one f these echos?

 > Nope.  Just have notes about them (never said other mind you
 > about them).

MvdV> So in fact we do not really know if they actually exist.

No, we know in fact that they *used* to exist, but that they probably do not
anymore exist.


 > It does

MvdV> Yes, it seems so: Pinyin.

Probably the name for it since you've looked it up.  I just know it exists as I
see it in various places in Asia, such as Singapore and Hong Kong.  You also
see it in some parts of Thailand.  Bits-n-pieces in lots of places.

 > although I cant read it because I cant read chinese
 > language. I see it out here in Asia though.

MvdV> "Asia" is a big place. What you see in Sasebo most likely is not Pinyi
MvdV> but Latinised Japanese. Foir Pinyin you need to go to a place where th

Grin, I'm not talking about Sasebo.  I imagine though that is is confusing!  I
travel so *much* compared to most of us in Fidonet (not more than anyone else
mind you, but I'd be in the top 10% easily for regular travel).

 > But then, USA 'phonetics' do not match.

MvdV> USA phonetics do not match Dutch phonetics either. Nor German or Frenc
MvdV> for that matter. Phonetics seldom match across the language barrier.

Heck, they dont match within a language often enough if the language is spread
about a goodly (goodlie) distance!

 > I remember getting a wrong answer on a spelling quiz as a kid
 > when I moved to Charlottesville VA.  Teacher said you 'drive
 > on a root' spell 'root' so I did.  She meant route.  (R OOO T
 > vs R-oww-T).

MvdV> Yet in the song about Route 66, it is definitely pronounced as "R OOO
MvdV> T" (Which, spelled like that btw would in Dutch would be pronounced wi
MvdV> an 'O' as in "row, row row the boat ashore".

My own area uses the 'ow' so it would be 'r-oww-t' (ow as in ouch sound you
make when you smash your finger by accident with a hammer).  (Umm, I make
other sounds less polite as I did that today when trying to fix a $%@#$^%@$^
fitting on a QAWTD (quick acting water tight door) that just didnt want to
$@^&@& budge the right way).

 > spell 'termater' for tomato either.

MvdV> That problem exist is all languages, but English is known for its inco
MvdV> in mapping spelling to pronounciation. try explaining to a non native
MvdV> speaker why the "ng" us "Singer" is pronounced different than the "ng"
MvdV> in "Ginger". or rather why they are spelled the same while they are pr
MvdV> different.

Umm, one is where a syllable separates the word, the other is one syllable in
that part?  In my own pronounciation, they are so close it's hard for me to
tell a difference betwixt'em.

'Unless-en I gets ta phonetics, ya caint tell I am a suth-ner when I type'. 
Heck after so many years, it's not that obvious when I speak unless you feed
me a few beers!  Then I shift down properly south of the mason-dixon <g>. 
I've been told I can get so 'deep south' with another southerner when having a
few beers, no Ozzies can follow the conversation and we have to ease up on it
a mite.

I've been having a bit of fun with it with Charlotte.  She didnt live 'deep
south' enough to have a real accent so now when I'm reading her 'Old Yeller' I
naturally drop to a deep south as i be a'readin and she's just totally
facinated by it all.  Adds a bit to a story she's read in school, but never
'heard' in it's native vernacular.

 > Hence, many cultures are sorta 'swapping' slowly and if they never
 > had phonetic writing, are adapting to it as a secondary skill.

MvdV> And it could very well be that the - until quit recent - inability to
MvdV> make typewritten pictographics has a lot to do with that.

Might be.


 > At least, that iswhat I seem to see out here (more then China,
 > I mean Asia as a group).

MvdV> "Asia" is much too large and diverse to see it as a "group".

Not really.  It's as much of a 'group' as 'Europe' only it has this odd section
in India and the Middle East that doesnt quite 'fit' (especially the middle
east).


MvdV> I think you and I have a LOT more in common than a Japanese and a Tibe

Yes, well we are both 'western minded'.  Dont discount Tibet and a Japanese
person though.  Those are the extremes but they might match in some ways.

MvdV> You do not need to know the language to be able to read the street sig
MvdV> Just compare what is on the map with what is on the signs. That works
MvdV> in any language...


Grin, try it.


 > Quite probably.  One other kicker is out here, it is very
 > common that a house can be wired for just one phone.

MvdV> As it was here 50 years ago. When I temporarily went back to live with
MvdV> my parents during a minor setback in my personal life in 1978, they (t
MvdV> telco, not my parents ;-)) had to dig a trench for a new cable, as the
MvdV> old one had only one pair of wires for one line.

MvdV> After 1970 or so all new houses were wired for at least two - and ofte
MvdV> more - lines.

Yes, new ones are better wired even out here.  But I had that same problem in
my Japan Cho and thats a pretty progressive area of Asia.  I'm also limited in
military housing to one line in this part of Japan.  In the Cho, I could add a
line but it would have cost me something like 1500$USA.  I military housing,
it's not an option.

MvdV> My conjecture was that in China they were never there in the first pla

Then your conjecture is erroneous.  You are looking for current signs as proof
that because they do not exist now, they never existed at all.  Tenjimin
Square massacre was promulgated to the world via Fidonet from China nodes.
                                       xxcarol

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