Text 257, 98 rader
Skriven 2006-08-07 11:17:00 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MTLHEAD
Ärende: Re: The End of Hell
===========================
Hello Curt,

>MT>"...tormented day and night for ever and ever."

>LL>I take it the reference is to Revelation 14:11 -

>LL>"And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they
>LL>have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its
>LL>image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

>LL>Remember, anything and everything that has had a beginning has or
>LL>will have a most definite end.

MT>Then there is no life everlasting with a Creator......

Those who are damned have life everlasting?  I don't think so.....

>LL>That includes the Sun, the Earth,
>LL>and the Moon.  Along with everything else in God's Creation.

MT>...including you and me.

That's right.  Everybody dies.  Including you and me.
But not everybody is damned, except in the physical sense.  ;)

MT>John 6:51 says "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any
MT>man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will
MT>give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

Even Jesus died.  And so did John.  Besides, who wants to live forever?
Not me.  Imagine how ugly one would look at a thousand years old.  One
would look uglier than a dried out prune.  :)

MT>I guess forever shouldn't mean forever here? According to this, Jesus is
MT>claiming eternal life for created beings. How can that be if everything
MT>created must end?

Jesus was begotten, not made.  But His physical body had a beginning,
and a most definite end.  Does that mean that Jesus did not rise from
the dead?  Of course not!  He did rise from the dead, but He did not
have the same body that he had when He had first walked this earth.  It
was changed.  After spending a bit more time with His friends on earth,
Jesus went to Hell.  But He did not stay long in that place.  After all,
Jesus had a better place to go to.  The thing is, Jesus wanted to invite
a few of His friends to come along with Him to see His new digs.  And
that begs the question, is there anybody in Hell?

>LL>Oh, one other thing.  Jesus said "Blessed are the merciful, for you
>LL>shall obtain mercy."  Given that Jesus was a merciful guy, would it
>LL>not make sense that God's nature of love and mercy would exceed our
>LL>own?

MT>Depends on your definition of love and mercy. I can respect God paying the
MT>cost literally with His own blood, but having done so, there is no longer
MT>any real _need_ for punishment at this point. So no, none of this hell
MT>business really makes a lot of sense to me at all. Why would I go to a cross
MT>for you just to let you rot in hell anyway after paying your debt?

Not everybody will be granted eternal life once their life on earth
has ended.  Of course, it should be the desire of all Christians that
everybody be granted eternal life, not just a select few.  But what is
the criteria to be granted eternal life?  Is it simply to believe in
God?  I don't think so.  And certainly, none of those who are in Hell
have been granted eternal life.  After all, Hell itself is not eternal.
And I cannot honestly say that anybody actually is in Hell, being that
nobody (except Jesus) has been to Hell and back. And when Jesus went to
Hell, He took everybody (AFAIK) who was there out.

MT>2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count
MT>slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should
MT>perish, but that all should come to repentance.

MT>...not willing that any should perish...  yet plainly saying that many do.

But where does it say that anybody is in Hell?

MT>Seems like whatever He is trying to accomplish, He's not really worried
MT>about breaking a few eggs in the process.

Jesus speaks of eternal punishment in Mt 25:46.  Go ahead.  Look it up.
But what He mean by that?  Does He mean that Hell is eternal?  Not by
a long shot.  Eternal separation from God is eternal punishment.  Hell
or no Hell, existence or no existence, that eternal separation from
God would be just that.  Eternal, or never-ending.  After all, how
can one be with God if one does not exist?

In any event, is anyone in Hell at all?  Has any human being ever made
it to that God-forsaken place?  When Jesus went to Hell, He was showing
the Devil who was really Boss.  And when Jesus left, He left no human
beings behind.  As such, how can I, or anybody else, honestly say that
anyone is in Hell?

--Lee


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