Text 1779, 197 rader
Skriven 2006-06-16 13:08:30 av Roy Witt (1:1/22)
   Kommentar till text 1758 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: CopyRight Ownership Arguement
=====================================
16 Jun 06 12:28, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:

 MvdV>>>>> Which is ridiculous.
 RW>>>> It's still their property, even if it's on your computer.
 MvdV>>> My computer resides on Dutch soil. I am a Dutch citizen, Dutch
 MvdV>>> law applies. Here posession is 90% of the ownership as they
 MvdV>>> say. Microsoft will have to show a pretty good case to turn
 MvdV>>> that 10% into a 100%. Here one can not own what one can not
 MvdV>>> control. Since they dropped all support, they don't have much
 MvdV>>> of a case I'd say.
 RW>> I'd say that if MS pushed the matter, you would be running and
 RW>> ducking to avoid the supeonas being served on you.
 MvdV> They'd first have to figure out what the Dutch equivalent of a
 MvdV> supeona is. <BEG>

That's be easy, consult with their dutch lawyers.

 RW>>>> As for 98, MS stopped supporting it today and there will be no
 RW>>>> help from them with updates and patches that used to keep the
 RW>>>> hackers from exploiting all of the flaws in its code. More
 RW>>>> later.
 MvdV>>> I am aware of that. I also have a good idea of how to keep
 MvdV>>> hackers out.
 RW>> What about when you're browsing the internet? You can't keep
 RW>> everyone out, as the announcement points out.
 MvdV> Well, I could dump windows explorer and use something else...

I'm not sure which program they're talking about, Internet Explorer or
Windows Explorer. In one breath they say that the problem exists while
browsing the internet (with IE, I assume) and then talk about Windows
Explorer, which isn't a browser.

 RW>> "Announced as part of April's security bulletins, a remote execution
 RW>> vulnerability exists in Windows Explorer because of the way that it
 RW>> handles COM objects. A malicious Web site could force a connection
 RW>> to a remote file server, which in turn causes Explorer to fail and
 RW>> potentially execute arbitrary code.
 MvdV> Has is not occurred to you that Microsoft has an interest in
 MvdV> overplaying the danger?

Better safe than sorry.

 RW>> Microsoft says an attacker could take complete control of affected
 RW>> operating systems in this manner. Patches correcting the flaw were
 RW>> issued for Windows 2000, XP and Windows Server 2003, but the
 RW>> vulnerability remains unpatched on Windows 9x based systems."
 MvdV> They have a vested interest in evryone upgrading....

I had the chance to use a friend's an old laptop the other day that had
Win3.1 on it. I was certainly glad that mine came with W2k installed on
it.

 MvdV>>> I am aware of that. The log of my web server shows dozens of
 MvdV>>> such attempts at intrusion every day. So?
 RW>> Apparently this isn't the case as quoted above. It's much worse.
 MvdV> Or so they say.

Always the skeptic.

 RW>>>> all MS has to do is scan yours and then through any open port
 RW>>>> you may have (21, 110, 24554), they can write their own utility
 RW>>>> to make your system ID itself to them (that includes the
 RW>>>> registration number).
 MvdV>>> If they did that they would open themselves to some time in a
 MvdV>>> Dutch "guest house". It is "computervredebreuk", a criminal
 MvdV>>> offence.
 RW>> It's very doubtful that they'd be reprimanded for it.
 MvdV> famous last words... No doubt ant case based on evidence gathered
 MvdV> this way would be dismissed out of hand in a Dutch court.

When you buy a new car, they automatically give you a warranty that lasts
a certain amount of time or mileage. When you buy it, you're automatically
entered into a database of customers. When you finance that car, your name
is automatically entered into yet another database for biling & collection
purposes. Should you renige on your financial agreement, they find your
car by using their database and come to your house to reposses it. I
suppose they'd be prosecuted and you'd get your car back, in a Dutch
court.

Doubtful, since that is how many company's do business worldwide.

 RW>>>> All they need to do is look at their registered user database
 RW>>>> and if that registration number is registered to you, you're off
 RW>>>> the hook. Otherwise, you're in the same boat with Felten.
 MvdV>>> I have not returned the registration card for my legally
 MvdV>>> obtained copy of Win98. I have not used the on-line
 MvdV>>> registration either. There is no need for me to do that, I
 MvdV>>> enjoy all the benefits anyway by Dutch law. Me not being in the
 MvdV>>> Redmond data base, is not proof I use an illegally obtained
 MvdV>>> copy.
 RW>> True to a point. OTH, not being in their database makes your motives
 RW>> suspect.
 MvdV> <shrug> "Nobody" here returns registration cards. It just generates
 MvdV> unwanted mail. My rights as a consumer do not depend on a
 MvdV> registration. No judge here will issue a search warrant becuase of
 MvdV> a missing registration.

Giving up your warranty and any support you could get is stupid. Unwanted
mail goes in the trash just as easily as the envelopes and paraphanalia
you get in your bank statements.

 RW>>>> Microsoft gives away free patches and updates to their OS
 RW>>>> software all the time. You (not literally) only have to pay for
 RW>>>> it once and then they support it for many years thereafter.
 MvdV>>> They have little choice. If they had not provided free patches
 MvdV>>> to fix the mess thay made, they would have to face consumer
 MvdV>>> organisations all over the world suing for damages for selling
 MvdV>>> a product with design flaws.
 RW>> All software has design flaws.

 MvdV> And all software makers have an obligation to fix design flaws when
 MvdV> they emerge. For free during the epxected life time of the product.

But they will only do so for their registered customers. Everyone else is
out in the cold, unless they feel like giving it away.

 RW>>>>  Win98 has been around for 9 years now.
 MvdV>>> Then they may still be in trouble. Dutch law requires support
 MvdV>>> for a minumum of ten years on sold goods. Availability of spare
 MvdV>>> parts, etc, etc. Though of course it does not have to be for
 MvdV>>> free if the defects are a result of normal waer and tare.
 RW>> Well then, you should get on the band wagon and report them for
 RW>> abandoning your unregistered, perhaps pirated software.
 MvdV> I have no dealings with microsoft. I have dealings with the vendor
 MvdV> that sold it to me. I take it up with the vendor. he can take it up
 MvdV> with Microsoft or find another way to solve my problem.

Yeah, he'll be happy to help you; where's your registration card?

 MvdV>>> Now what is wear and tare on a coputer programme> An
 MvdV>>> interesting question..

 RW>> Its your law...

 MvdV> True...

 RW>>>> So, if you've got a pirated copy of a MS OS on your PC, what has
 RW>>>> MS lost by prosecuting you?

 MvdV>>> Goodwill for one.

 RW>> So goodwill is something they're required to give to people who've
 RW>> stolen their software?

 MvdV> Goodwill is something they will need to survive in the long run.

 MvdV>>> The little that is left. Their offensive marketing strategies
 MvdV>>> have already lost them a great deal of goodwill.

 RW>> Hmmm, maybe that's why uropeon products don't sell very well in this
 RW>> country. Especially French wine.

 MvdV> I suspect the high cost of transport is the main deterrent.

 RW>>>> You weren't supporting them by buying their products anyway.

 MvdV>>> Someone using a copy of their abandonware is a potential
 MvdV>>> customer for their new products.

 RW>> And they'd be happy to accomodate you, when you register your old
 RW>> software.

 MvdV> Anyione registering his copy of Win98 *now* would be a fool. It is
 MvdV> abandonware!

 MvdV>>>  Antagonising potential customers by dragging them into court
 MvdV>>> is not a good marketing strategy.

 RW>> Like I said, you weren't supporting them anyway. No reason to give
 RW>> you amnesty when you've ripped them off.

 MvdV> Throwing people in jail, eliminates them from the pool of potential
 MvdV> customers. Not a good marketing strategy...

 MvdV>>> A better, more customer friendly - and probably also more
 MvdV>>> profitable - approach would be to offer them a discount on an
 MvdV>>> upgrade Turn in your copy of Win85 or Win98 - no questions
 MvdV>>> asked - and get two copies of XP home for the price of one.

 RW>> LOL! That's like giving amnesty and citizenship to illegal
 RW>> immigrants.

 MvdV> Which could be a better strategy in the long run then risking a
 MvdV> revolt.

 RW>> Why reward somebody for committing crimes?

 MvdV> To make some money of him of course.

 MvdV> Michiel

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 MvdV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Roy
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