Text 13666, 158 rader
Skriven 2009-12-16 08:19:00 av WAYNE CHIRNSIDE (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av SCOTT LITTLE
Ärende: IBM Aptiva 2139-SE7 1998
================================
-=> SCOTT LITTLE wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

 SL>  [ On 2009-12-15 at 10:01:00, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE wrote to ROSS CASSELL ]

 WC> Uh huh, and exactly _what_ happens when the motherboard's
 WC> intended BIOS is circumvented by the *BIOS* that exists
 WC> on the Nvidia MX-400 executes *before anything* and corrupts
 WC> the motherboard's BIOS instructions.

 SL> If that's happening, it's either faulty hardware or an under-spec PSU.

Hmm, hard to say its defective when a chip on that card
has BIOS printed right on it and that that executes before
the motherboard BIOS corrupting it so it no longer boots to
either floppy or CD-ROM and that's what was happening _before_
I installed the Nvidia afterarket video driver for the card.
 

 SL> I have mostly nVidia video cards (including a GeForce4 MX 440-SE) and
 SL> they all show their splash screen before the motherboard BIOS POST
 SL> (that doesn't mean it runs first, though), but none of them interfere
 SL> with said motherboard BIOS in any way, none interact with LILO in any
 SL> way and none of them have caused any screen to explode.

Well this is a IBM Aptiva 2139-SE7 with BX-440 chipset
and therefore rather straightforward.

Put the Nvidia card in without installing the driver and it
works fine *except* I can no longer boot to a rescue floppy
or the CD-ROM.

 SL> It's possible that LILO was configured to use a video mode that was
 SL> only supported by the original card, 

Nope, it's configured to the safest driver possible as default.
Installing the Nvidia driver ramped it up to the maximum
the card would support by uncommenting all the higher 
resolution options pre-existing in the plain default
lilo.conf

The Nvidia driver install also tainted the Linux kernel as I was reminded upon
every boot by dmesg, something I've done more in the few weeks
since installing their driver than all other occasions before 
combined.

 SL> so when you swapped them it
 SL> barfed, but "modern" hardware is capable of handling that and would not
 SL> result in a damaged card or monitor.  And if that is the case, the
 SL> system would still POST as normal but you'd get either nothing or a
 SL> mode selection prompt once LILO was loaded.

Heh, the HP monitor gave a message literally spelling out
that damage would occurr were I not to shut off the driver,
as well as having a really messed up screen.

As to the Mach 64 on the motherboard this was made in 1998
so I'm not so sure you could call that "modern".

 WC> The Nvidia has a chip expressly labeled BIOS
 WC> and it fires off first tying to the lilo.conf file
 WC> before the motherboard BIOS ever gets going.

 SL> You must be interpreting the facts incorrectly, or stating them
 SL> incorrectly. Such a sequence of events is not possible:

Uh huh, what I am seeing with my own eyes is not occuring you say?
FACT: put in the card and the existing BIOS on the motherboard
is corrupted where it *will not boot* to either floppy nor
a bootable CD.
Remove the card and those options once again operate normally.

Bear in mind too that _after_ I had all these difficulties
I went and googled: Linux GeForce MX-400 experiences and found dozens
of accounts just exactly like my own in the first three pages of 
googles returned links.
 
SL> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting#Boot_sequence_on_standard_PC_.28IBM
 SL> -PC_com
 SL> patible.29

 WC> To the moderator and others this annoys as it does me
 WC> I do feel an obligation to not allow the disemination of
 WC> advice I know from both personal experience
 WC> as well as numerous accounts by others to have
 WC> potentially catatrophic consequences.

 SL> Perhaps I'm missing something, but substituting a video card is
 SL> perfectly safe advice, as long as you know what you're doing and your
 SL> hardware isn't bjorked to begin with.

Perhaps you are missing something.
The software was 100 percent before adding the card.

The software remained fine after adding the card, only
the previously existing boot options supported by the BIOS 
on the motherboard no longer worked.

It was following the advice to boot back to the original
ATI Pro Rage card *after* having installed the Nvida driver
that the software was borked, totally and completely.

 SL> And you're right, this thread annoys me.  On many levels.  Unless there
 SL> are new facts/interpretations forthcoming, I suggest we consider it a
 SL> lost cause and move on.

I agree however others will not let it drop.

It's over for me.
The Nvidia card will never again see the light of day.

That does not mean I won't use an Nvidia motherboard
video card designed to work with the existing BIOS.

This has been my first and thus far only experience with a wildly unstable
Linux O.S. and I've been long ready to put it behind me.

You want the card?
I'll ship it to you at my expense around the third of the month.

I would never think to inflict this thing on another not forewarned.

Should you want this thing I can be emailed at barfnartsATyahooDOTcom
for your mailing address.

Personally I *would* put it back in as Linux is going to soon
have native support for Nvida but for the fact it prevents booting
from CD-ROM or floppy and I've aleady had it in and out a half
dozen times just following others advice that led to disaster.

The idea of having to pull the video card just to do a minor
recovery as is necessesary from time to time due to some
few of my tweaks having been a bit off is unacceptable to me.
 
As to your being annoyed on many levels think of how I
feel after announcing I'd no longer be active in political
echos stated this would be my primary echo to lurk and post in
those individuals from those echos I'd abandoned
pursued me here.

My intent of being here at all is to learn and so far
Maurice Kinal has been A+++ in getting me to be at home 
with Linux.

To date that individual has not steered me wrong once.

Heck he even warned me agaist the card and I was reluctant
to accept it in place of the used card I wanted to order
from the computer shop I frequent.

I can only assume Ray's experience with Nvidia comes
from those incorporated into his preferred choice of
Biostar motherboards using it and not from aftermarket
add on video cards.
 

 
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