Text 3303, 198 rader
Skriven 2005-09-19 13:38:00 av CHARLES ANGELICH (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MARTIN ATKINS
Ärende: Linspire 5.0
====================

123c77e99282
linux



Hello Martin - 

CA>>>> When a poor man steals it might be that there is no
CA>>>> justice in the land. When a man who is _not_ poor steals
CA>>>> it is always because there is no justice in the man. 

MA> --8<--cut 

MA>> I am no expert but coming from a DOS/Win background i do
MA>> believe i understand the difficulties involved in starting
MA>> on the road to Linux. 

CA>> 89.9% (allowing for Apple users) of all people who have
CA>> used personal computers for more than just a few years
CA>> have come "from a DOS/Win background". 

MA> You are overlooking UNIX many who have migrated to open
MA> source. Anyway I don't see your point. I simply stated i am
MA> sympathetic to those who wish to move from DOS/Win to
MA> Linux. Problem? 

That you come "from a DOS/Win background" is irrelevant, most
of us do. Not unlike saying "I have two eyes and two ears and
am therefore sympathetic to those who wish to move from DOS/Win
to Linux". 

"CS>>>> 2. Obtaining and installing software. 

--8<--cut 

MA>> For a start Charles Scaglione is offering to help
MA>> Obtaining and installing software and in the next line he
MA>> states he will show them how to do it legally. 

CA>> The 'offer' follows closely on the heels of a flurry of
CA>> discussion about Linspire offering free downloads. The
CA>> timing if also a factor. Lack of any appreciation
CA>> whatsoever? 

MA> Not really. Redhat(Fedora), Mandrake are just two of the
MA> public releases made by organizations that hope to profit
MA> from open source. I applaud them all for making Linux
MA> accessible to those who would find it difficult to build a
MA> system from scratch. 

RedHat doesn't offer it's commercial versions for free that I
know of. That's why they began the 'fedora' versions. 

MA>> This is not unusual in the open source world. Let's for
MA>> the time being assume Linspire is entirely open source,
MA>> then all they have done is bundle other peoples hard work
MA>> at no cost to them other than time. 

CA>> I recall mention that the Linspire version of wine did a
CA>> better job of executing Windows software but have heard
CA>> next to nothing about that for some time now. AFAIK
CA>> Linspire involved some 'customization' prior to it's
CA>> release. 

MA> So what? Most public releases are customized. Linux is a
MA> customizationaly rich environment. 

The 'so what' is they have programmers to pay for those efforts. 

MA>> Some would accuse them of being nothing more than
MA>> parasites. 

CA>> Those who accepted the offer of a free copy of the
CA>> Linspire OS then began lusting after more free software
CA>> seem more parasitic to me than Linspire does. None of
CA>> these people have contributed anything to opensource
CA>> linux, they just want to collect as much of it as they can
CA>> get for free. 

MA> Some move Linux 'cos they can't afford or are sick to death
MA> of Microsoft. They can play a part by reporting bugs,
MA> testing new releases of apps or just becoming a part of the
MA> growing community of open source users. Some may promote
MA> Linux by helping others to over come their fear of moving
MA> to another platform. Or they may even contribute by helping
MA> with the daunting task of documenting various aspects of
MA> open source software. There is no requirment for them to
MA> pay under the open source licence. 

What people are paying for with CNR is the 'click-n-run' that
assures them the software is a match for the version of
Linspire they are using. That is a _service_ and is not free. 

MA>> This is not my view. I do not believe that making money
MA>> from bundling is immoral. Mandriva, Redhat, Suse and
MA>> others do it. I say more power to them if it makes Linux
MA>> more usable to the general public but if they do that they
MA>> must play by the open source rules or get out the game. 

MA>> I do not receive my pay check by piggy backing off the
MA>> free labour of others. 

CA>> Odd thing is, Charles Scaglione _does_ do just that for
CA>> his 'paycheck'. 

MA> I don't know how Charles Scaglione derives his income but
MA> it says volumes about you that you should say such things
MA> because he does what most Linux user strive to do and hacks
MA> code or scripts. 

No. 'Most linux users' use the opensource distributions and
repositories for their particular version of linux and seldom
discuss ways to avoid paying RedHat, Linspire, or any other
commercial entity that is trying to promote the use of linux. 

MA> Do you enjoy being the most twitted person in WIN95? 

Considering the character of the persons doing the 'twit-ing',
yes. 

MA>> I would be interested to know if Linspire has a licensing
MA>> clause with their public release. Linspire has already
MA>> been in hot water when it came to grief with Microsoft as
MA>> Lindows. Seems they have no moral scruples when it comes
MA>> to free loading of anothers name. :-} 

CA>> I don't consider squabbling with M$ over a portion of
CA>> their name has a great deal of relevance. For me, it made
CA>> M$ seem petty. 

MA> Of course Microsoft was being petty. It is just many of the
MA> corporations many ugly traits. It doesn't alter the fact
MA> that Lindows was trying to capitalize on a trade marked
MA> name. 

The discussions were, at the onset, that Lindows had improved
their version of wine and it would allow use of more windows
software than other versions of linux. I don't know if that was
ever true but it was their marketing focus which made the name
'lindows' seem appropriate to me. Again, M$ was being petty IMO. 

MA> Ironically it's one of the reasons i have never taken an
MA> interest in it. 

I sort of guessed that you had no interest in Linspire. You
enjoy the "No, you're wrong" type discussions regardless of
what you know about the topic at hand. 

MA> Through out this thread you have tried to take the moral
MA> high ground by accusing others of being free loaders. 

Not free loaders, ungrateful for the free Linspire OS they only
recently were able to download. To immediately lust for more
seems a bit crude and ungrateful from my perspective. 

MA> You have been using docsplace for some years and as far as
MA> i know you have not contributed one penny towards its
MA> upkeep. You may have your reasons. Perhaps you are on a
MA> pension or have a disability. 

I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here.
You seem to think payment for Linspire's software should be
optional but payment for access to a BBS that is optional is
not _really_ optional? 

MA> What ever the reason i think you have the bare faced guile
MA> of a hypocrite to lecture others about sponging of other
MA> peoples labours. 

"Bare faced guile"? You must read fiction written by female
authors. LOL 

I ran two BBS for over 3 years at no charge to my users while
writing the code for same and distributing it for the cost of
mailing the disks. Before and after that time sysops were
desperate for people to contribute to the message system. At
that time it was the user who only downloaded free software
that was a 'scoundrel'. Many BBS had ratios for uploading and
downloading but also gave 'points' for posting messages. A few
did the reverse and tried to charge to post on FIDO. I've been
told repeatedly that those who attempted to charge for FIDO
were in the minority. 

MA> L8r. 

Maybe not. 

>
>        ,                          ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich      \o       ,
>     <|                              |>  __o/
>     / >          USA, MI           < \   __\__
 

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