Text 3337, 242 rader
Skriven 2005-09-21 11:27:00 av MARTIN ATKINS (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av CHARLES ANGELICH
Ärende: Linspire 5.0
====================
-=> CHARLES ANGELICH wrote to MARTIN ATKINS <=-

 CA> Hello Martin -

 MA>> I am no expert but coming from a DOS/Win background i do
 MA>> believe i understand the difficulties involved in starting
 MA>> on the road to Linux.

 CA>> 89.9% (allowing for Apple users) of all people who have
 CA>> used personal computers for more than just a few years
 CA>> have come "from a DOS/Win background".

 MA> You are overlooking UNIX many who have migrated to open
 MA> source. Anyway I don't see your point. I simply stated i am
 MA> sympathetic to those who wish to move from DOS/Win to
 MA> Linux. Problem?

 CA> That you come "from a DOS/Win background" is irrelevant, most
 CA> of us do. Not unlike saying "I have two eyes and two ears and
 CA> am therefore sympathetic to those who wish to move from DOS/Win
 CA> to Linux".

The difference between you and i is that i actually use Linux where as
your just a wanna be Linux user so i can counter the misinformation
people like you spread.

 MA>> For a start Charles Scaglione is offering to help
 MA>> Obtaining and installing software and in the next line he
 MA>> states he will show them how to do it legally.

 CA>> The 'offer' follows closely on the heels of a flurry of
 CA>> discussion about Linspire offering free downloads. The
 CA>> timing if also a factor. Lack of any appreciation
 CA>> whatsoever?

 MA> Not really. Redhat(Fedora), Mandrake are just two of the
 MA> public releases made by organizations that hope to profit
 MA> from open source. I applaud them all for making Linux
 MA> accessible to those who would find it difficult to build a
 MA> system from scratch.

 CA> RedHat doesn't offer it's commercial versions for free that I
 CA> know of. That's why they began the 'fedora' versions.

Yes..that's why i put Fedora in brackets. Do try and pay attention.

 MA>> This is not unusual in the open source world. Let's for
 MA>> the time being assume Linspire is entirely open source,
 MA>> then all they have done is bundle other peoples hard work
 MA>> at no cost to them other than time.

 CA>> I recall mention that the Linspire version of wine did a
 CA>> better job of executing Windows software but have heard
 CA>> next to nothing about that for some time now. AFAIK
 CA>> Linspire involved some 'customization' prior to it's
 CA>> release.

 MA> So what? Most public releases are customized. Linux is a
 MA> customizationaly rich environment.

 CA> The 'so what' is they have programmers to pay for those efforts.

Linspire didn't produce wine they probably only tweaked it and
i would speculate that all they did i play around with some
scripts. So did they pay the original programmers? I'll bet they
didn't so yet again they are profiting from other peoples effort.

 MA>> Some would accuse them of being nothing more than
 MA>> parasites.

 CA>> Those who accepted the offer of a free copy of the
 CA>> Linspire OS then began lusting after more free software
 CA>> seem more parasitic to me than Linspire does. None of
 CA>> these people have contributed anything to opensource
 CA>> linux, they just want to collect as much of it as they can
 CA>> get for free.

 MA> Some move Linux 'cos they can't afford or are sick to death
 MA> of Microsoft. They can play a part by reporting bugs,
 MA> testing new releases of apps or just becoming a part of the
 MA> growing community of open source users. Some may promote
 MA> Linux by helping others to over come their fear of moving
 MA> to another platform. Or they may even contribute by helping
 MA> with the daunting task of documenting various aspects of
 MA> open source software. There is no requirment for them to
 MA> pay under the open source licence.

 CA> What people are paying for with CNR is the 'click-n-run' that
 CA> assures them the software is a match for the version of
 CA> Linspire they are using. That is a _service_ and is not free.

If people wish to pay for the service that is their prerogative. 
Since you don't know what information Charles Scaglione sent me you 
are just assuming that he is using the Linspire service.

If i'm wrong then i hope Charles will put me right but the information
he sent me doesn't require the Linspire service and in his original
post suggested that he would show people how to carry on using
the Linspire free of the its service. It was at that point
you accused him of being a crook.

 MA>> This is not my view. I do not believe that making money
 MA>> from bundling is immoral. Mandriva, Redhat, Suse and
 MA>> others do it. I say more power to them if it makes Linux
 MA>> more usable to the general public but if they do that they
 MA>> must play by the open source rules or get out the game.

 MA>> I do not receive my pay check by piggy backing off the
 MA>> free labour of others.

 CA>> Odd thing is, Charles Scaglione _does_ do just that for
 CA>> his 'paycheck'.

 MA> I don't know how Charles Scaglione derives his income but
 MA> it says volumes about you that you should say such things
 MA> because he does what most Linux user strive to do and hacks
 MA> code or scripts.

 CA> No. 'Most linux users' use the opensource distributions and
 CA> repositories for their particular version of linux and seldom
 CA> discuss ways to avoid paying RedHat, Linspire, or any other
 CA> commercial entity that is trying to promote the use of linux.

Just because someone has purchased a Redhat release it doesn't
follow that they need upgrade their system via Readhat. They can
get their sources or RPM packages from many places on the internet. 
My first installation was RH and i upgraded it many times without 
ever contacting RH. Their business model doesn't rely on income from 
their commercial releases it is derived from support services.

 MA> Do you enjoy being the most twitted person in WIN95?

 CA> Considering the character of the persons doing the 'twit-ing',
 CA> yes.

"person" don't you mean "people"?

 MA>> I would be interested to know if Linspire has a licensing
 MA>> clause with their public release. Linspire has already
 MA>> been in hot water when it came to grief with Microsoft as
 MA>> Lindows. Seems they have no moral scruples when it comes
 MA>> to free loading of anothers name. :-}

 CA>> I don't consider squabbling with M$ over a portion of
 CA>> their name has a great deal of relevance. For me, it made
 CA>> M$ seem petty.

 MA> Of course Microsoft was being petty. It is just many of the
 MA> corporations many ugly traits. It doesn't alter the fact
 MA> that Lindows was trying to capitalize on a trade marked
 MA> name.

 CA> The discussions were, at the onset, that Lindows had improved
 CA> their version of wine and it would allow use of more windows
 CA> software than other versions of linux. 

This thread started when you accused Charles Scaglione of being a crook.

 CA> I don't know if that was
 CA> ever true but it was their marketing focus which made the name
 CA> 'lindows' seem appropriate to me. Again, M$ was being petty IMO.

So far this is the only thing we agree on. :-}

 MA> Ironically it's one of the reasons i have never taken an
 MA> interest in it.

 CA> I sort of guessed that you had no interest in Linspire. You
 CA> enjoy the "No, you're wrong" type discussions regardless of
 CA> what you know about the topic at hand.

No you're wrong. :-}

 MA> Through out this thread you have tried to take the moral
 MA> high ground by accusing others of being free loaders.

 CA> Not free loaders, ungrateful for the free Linspire OS they only
 CA> recently were able to download. To immediately lust for more
 CA> seems a bit crude and ungrateful from my perspective.

"ungrateful"? Are naive enough to think that as a for profit company
it made a public released without seeing some kind of commercial
benefit. If only one in five people who install it become subscribers
then they have made an astute business decision. 

 MA> You have been using docsplace for some years and as far as
 MA> i know you have not contributed one penny towards its
 MA> upkeep. You may have your reasons. Perhaps you are on a
 MA> pension or have a disability.

 CA> I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here.
 CA> You seem to think payment for Linspire's software should be
 CA> optional but payment for access to a BBS that is optional is
 CA> not _really_ optional?

Ever wriggling hypocrite aren't you. All software under the GNU license
is distributed freely yet you think anyone who installs Linspire should
pay them for evermore while they use the software they installed from
a public release, yet a non profit service provider asks for voluntary
donations and you, a person who can probably afford it continue to
sponge of other peoples good intentions. While your about it why
don't you go and get a free feed from the charitable organizations
that distribute food to the poor.  

 MA> What ever the reason i think you have the bare faced guile
 MA> of a hypocrite to lecture others about sponging of other
 MA> peoples labours.

 CA> "Bare faced guile"? You must read fiction written by female
 CA> authors. LOL

And you must be having one of your leotard moments as per your sig file. 
Calling someone "bare faced" or "barefaced" is common English meaning 
"brazen" or "without" shame. What has that got to do with Women fiction 
writers? 

CA> I ran two BBS for over 3 years at no charge to my users while
CA> writing the code for same and distributing it for the cost of
CA> mailing the disks. Before and after that time sysops were
CA> desperate for people to contribute to the message system. At
CA> that time it was the user who only downloaded free software
CA> that was a 'scoundrel'. Many BBS had ratios for uploading and
CA> downloading but also gave 'points' for posting messages. A few
CA> did the reverse and tried to charge to post on FIDO. I've been
CA> told repeatedly that those who attempted to charge for FIDO
CA> were in the minority.

Living in the past does not excuse you current behavior. I don't
need a history lesson from you. Every BBS i have used has asked
for voluntary donations and every BBS i have used for any degree
of time i have contributed to. You should try it some time.

 MA> L8r.

 CA> Maybe not.

Don't be silly Charles, you just can't control your self.

L8r.
 
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