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Text 4496, 147 rader
Skriven 2005-11-10 00:33:00 av CHARLES ANGELICH (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MAURICE KINAL
Ärende: response
================

123c834a0294
linux



Hello Maurice - 

CA>> The typical (the majority) user has absolutely NO idea how
CA>> the internet functions. Most think WWW _is_ the internet
CA>> and are unaware of any other traffic, even FTP is
CA>> relatively unknown. 

MK> ftp was/is the mainstay of the internet for me personally.
MK> I am starting to get used to using wget, which is
MK> comparable, but still prefer ftp as it is easier to
MK> robotize for such things as automagic network backups. 

I used automated FTP scripts when using DOS but haven't
bothered to look into it for Windows FTP. I probably should
check on that. :-) 

CA>> Yes, getting 'connected' was more time consuming and
CA>> required a bit of RTFM. 

MK> Not unlike getting connected to a Fido dialup network. The
MK> biggest problem when I first got a node number is that the
MK> uplink in this part of the world had no idea how to
MK> replicate any protocols, let alone FTN compliant ones. He
MK> wouldn't have known how to configure a hub/node/whatever
MK> without supplied unregistered software. It didn't take long
MK> before the entire local network was no more. I moved to the
MK> internet before that happened 

I was on the internet long before the dialups began shutting
down. 

MK> thanks to someone who understood the problems and took care
MK> of the political bullshit. 

The politics I observed were ugly. Uglier than any I had
experienced in the real world. 

CA>> The *nix PPP dialup was cloned to DOS some years ago
CA>> (decades?). It required editing of the configuration and
CA>> some understanding of telecom/netw terminology but not a
CA>> great deal. 

MK> More then any Windows person could handle. Like I said,
MK> they wouldn't know 'good' from 'bad' even if nailed with
MK> unwanted and unrequested traffic. 

Well more than _some_ Windows persons, yes. Those who only came
online via a Windows OS would be lost trying to setup PPP on
any OS. 

CA>> Windows v3.x originally required a DOS login prior to
CA>> execution of Windows. 

MK> Yes but few, if any, of them had internet access then. If
MK> they did they were more then likely on a REAL network
MK> connection with access to the internet as opposed to having
MK> a commericial isp. 

I get the impression there were more people online than I had
originally thought there were. Trumpet, the company, worked
with a comittee that included Microsoft to produce Trumpet
Winsock for Windows v3.x that was the defacto standard until
Microsoft produced their own for W31. I used the Trumpet
Winsock for several years and it worked well for me at the time. 

MK> The internet didn't start getting used by Windows users
MK> until after Win95 which had the first real hack of internet
MK> tools available to it. That is when the www took off. 

Probably so. W95 was much more user friendly than W31 had been.
I never used W95 or WinME myself. I just stayed with what I had
working (W31) until W2K came along. 

CA>> There has been some 'decent' software such as MINUET from
CA>> the University of Minnesota, MSKermit, and others. 

MK> Right. Not bad but cannot compare to a networked Unix
MK> system. 

I'm not so sure if you compare within those time frames. Mosaic
was really slow - I tried it just for the heck of it. I don't
really remember where Netscape came into the picture but I seem
to recall using it with W3.x many years ago? 

MK> Also there isn't much useable server software available to
MK> DOS which is probably a good thing. I believe a true
MK> multiuser OS is required to do server networking, which all
MK> MS type products fail miserably at, along with proper tcpip
MK> networking. 

I never tried to setup a server on the internet but I do have
links to a group of guys who have an 8088 machine online as a
web server using existing DOS applications they cobbled
together. :-) MSkermit has Wermit-Server built into it but
again, I never tried to use it on the internet. An ISP named
Demon.uk had some software that I think was being used for
setting up DOS servers? 

CA>> The demise of BBS can be attributed to the concept of
CA>> sysops as 'mini-gods' and the arrogance of same. 

MK> Possibly some. The loss of a decent user based terminal and
MK> users that understood terminals is what I figure was the
MK> final coffin nail. 

Even in my day people wanted color and graphics (ANSI graphics
of the type Doc's Place displays). RIP graphics were also being
used by some. I think the graphics of the internet had a strong
pull. 

MK> I am always amazed when people see my setup as something
MK> new to them. I've been doing things this was since before
MK> MS even existed. Works great, even modern mutilemdia apps,
MK> on a good old fashioned terminal without one pointy-clicky
MK> thingy in sight. Graphics too although I don't network
MK> graphics as that should be up to the client and not the
MK> server. 

Latex comes to mind having been mentioned by several authors of
terminal software. 

CA>> When I first connected to BBS the sysops were techies
CA>> (mainly hardware) anxious to communicate with anyone who
CA>> could understand them. They enjoyed the 'company' and were
CA>> seldom arrogant. 

MK> Yeah so? I doubt that is a reason for success or failure. 

A BBS exists to service users. Run off the users and what you
have is a complex paper weight. :-) 

>
>        ,                          ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich      \o       ,
>     <|                              |>  __o/
>     / >          USA, MI           < \   __\__
 

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