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Text 11702, 279 rader
Skriven 2006-06-19 22:52:08 av Geo (1:379/45)
  Kommentar till text 11696 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: PCI hardware ID
===========================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Rich,

I didn't say there weren't a dozen different excuses for why things are = the
way they are now.  I just think it's wrong to perpetuate the = mistakes by
supporting what is obviously the wrong way to do things. = Look at how much
lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it didn't = allow the level of
"cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the = rules better and we are
better off now.

Same thing should happen with all the other cases where past mistakes = have
created a situation that the computer must guess. Break the damn = websites
that aren't working right, enforce strict file types for text = files. Stop
accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and enforce some
rules.

Things have a habit of getting real complicated all by themselves, we = don't
need to be helping confusion get a grip on our computer = environments. Just
because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero = doesn't mean every
programmer should now support that till the end of = time.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:449720d7@w3.nls.net...
     Two different issues.  IE has to apply heuristics to file types =
because the servers that return this content often return bogus, both =
incorrect or invalid, types.  It's not easy to fix.  IE had to do this =
because netscape didn't enforce types and to be compatible IE couldn't =
either.  Because the types aren't enforced lots of servers still do this =
wrong.  Because they do types can't be enforced.

     Text and Unicode is first a false distinction.  It's all text.  In =
the case of Notepad, you mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text = as
this is the distinction that Notepad makes on load.  Even that misses = the
complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct = and
incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM encodings = which may
be distinct from any of the ANSI ones.  It is complicated = because for many of
the ANSI encodings including the one used in the = U.S. and Western Europe,
anything could be valid.  Because of this it is = not always possible to make a
distinction between UTF-16 and ANSI as a = file could validly be either.  UTF-8
is restrictive so it is easy to = tell if something is valid UTF-8.  That could
still be a problem as = valid UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too.  Instead some
heuristics are = applied.  For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is
probably = UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D might be
a = valid Unicode character.  I didn't look.

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net...
    That's not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
how
    computers today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have a =
unique
    solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or how notepad =
guesses
    between text and unicode.

    Geo.

    "Antti Kurenniemi" <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote in message
    news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net...
    > It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip here
    > and that there, and then those jumpers that I just dropped and =
have no
    clue
    > about where they should go... I'll just make a neat row of them =
here,
    > that'll do it". I remember a lot of hardware having huge manuals =
for just
    > configuring the stupid dip switches and whatnots, and that it was =
possible
    > to fry things by misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - =
nowadays, at
    least
    > you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer <g>
    >
    >
    > Antti Kurenniemi
    >
    > "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net...
    > I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at things. =
We used
    > to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but all that =
changed
    now..
    >
    > Geo.
    >   "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net...
    >      You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off =
the
    shelf
    > adapter that is plugged in.  The PC could go back to the dark ages =
too as
    > this is how things used to be when the PC first came to be.
    >
    >   Rich
    >
    >
    >


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1528" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I didn't say there weren't a dozen =
different=20
excuses for why things are the way they are now.&nbsp; I just think it's =
wrong=20
to perpetuate the mistakes by supporting what is obviously the wrong way = to
do=20
things. Look at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it =
didn't=20
allow the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the =
rules=20
better and we are better off now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Same thing should happen with all the =
other cases=20
where past mistakes have created a situation that the computer must = guess.
Break=20
the damn websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types = for
text=20
files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and=20
enforce some rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Things have a habit of getting real =
complicated all=20
by themselves, we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our =
computer=20
environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero =
doesn't=20
mean every programmer should now support that till the end of =
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:449720d7@w3.nls.net">news:449720d7@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Two different =
issues.&nbsp; IE has=20
  to apply heuristics to file types because the servers that return this =
content=20
  often return bogus, both incorrect or invalid, types.&nbsp; It's not =
easy to=20
  fix.&nbsp; IE had to do this because netscape didn't enforce types and =
to be=20
  compatible IE couldn't either.&nbsp; Because the types aren't enforced =
lots of=20
  servers still do this wrong.&nbsp; Because they do types can't be=20
  enforced.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Text and Unicode is =
first a false=20
  distinction.&nbsp; It's all text.&nbsp; In the case of Notepad, you =
mean=20
  UTF-16 text&nbsp;vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text as this is the =
distinction that=20
  Notepad makes on load.&nbsp; Even that misses the complexity as what =
people=20
  call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct and incompatible ANSI =
encodings and=20
  is often one of many OEM encodings which may be distinct from any of =
the ANSI=20
  ones.&nbsp; It is complicated because for many of the ANSI encodings =
including=20
  the one used in the U.S. and Western Europe, anything could be =
valid.&nbsp;=20
  Because of this it is not always possible to make a distinction =
between UTF-16=20
  and ANSI as a file could validly be either.&nbsp; UTF-8 is restrictive =
so it=20
  is easy to tell if something is valid UTF-8.&nbsp; That could still be =
a=20
  problem as valid UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too.&nbsp; Instead some =
heuristics=20
  are applied.&nbsp; For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is =

  probably UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D =
might be a=20
  valid Unicode character.&nbsp; I didn't look.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net">news:449444fd$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>That's=20
    not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
how<BR>computers=20
    today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have a=20
    unique<BR>solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or =
how=20
    notepad guesses<BR>between text and =
unicode.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR>"Antti=20
    Kurenniemi" &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message<BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net">news:449392b8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;=20
    It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this dip =

    here<BR>&gt; and that there, and then those jumpers that I just =
dropped and=20
    have no<BR>clue<BR>&gt; about where they should go... I'll just make =
a neat=20
    row of them here,<BR>&gt; that'll do it". I remember a lot of =
hardware=20
    having huge manuals for just<BR>&gt; configuring the stupid dip =
switches and=20
    whatnots, and that it was possible<BR>&gt; to fry things by =
misconfiguring=20
    them. No thanks to that - nowadays, at<BR>least<BR>&gt; you don't =
have to=20
    get your hands dirty to break your computer=20
    &lt;g&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Antti Kurenniemi<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
"Geo"=20
    &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in=20
    message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net">news:44938e6a$2@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;=20
    I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at things. =
We=20
    used<BR>&gt; to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but =
all that=20
    changed<BR>now..<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Geo.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Rich" =
&lt;@&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net">news:4493558b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off=20
    the<BR>shelf<BR>&gt; adapter that is plugged in.&nbsp; The PC could =
go back=20
    to the dark ages too as<BR>&gt; this is how things used to be when =
the PC=20
    first came to be.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    =
Rich<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML>

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