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Text 15859, 424 rader
Skriven 2007-02-05 11:40:30 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: class attribute and standard HTML
=============================================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C7491A.704C3B90
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   Don't ask me but your definition of crap includes standard compliant. =
 It appears that you use the term "crap" for things you wish to whine =
about without regard to other factors like standards.

   MsoNormal is the name of the HTML/CSS class.  I'll refer you to the =
HTML and CSS standards for a description of how this works.  The name = doesn't
matter.  It could have been AdamIsAnIdiot and it would still be = standards
compliant.  Assuming the presence of a class when not declared = is a violation
of the standards.  Again, I'll refer you to the HTML and = CSS standards for a
description of how this works.

   I was describing Word 2003 though the same applies to Word 2007.  I =
give you the html element with the XML namespaces and you try to refute = this
by excerpting some other portion of a document.  Are you dim?  You = fly
totally off the handle with your comment

  HTML 4 stuff is simply using no=20
  namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely irrelevant =
&=20
  as usual a canard.

Look at the html element again and note that a default namespace is = provided.

Rich

  "Ad" <Dobbin@theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com> wrote in message =
news:45c6fec1@w3.nls.net...
  Rich wrote:
  >    Good that you now acknowledge that the HTML is standards =
compliant. =20

  Things can be standards compliant while still being crap & the Word =
HTML=20
  is crap.


  > I'm surprised you suggest non-compliance with a hack like "if no =
class=20
  > set assume MsoNormal upon rendering".  You're really being a =
hypocrite here.
  > =20

  Ummm no. What use is MsoNormal except to MS crap apps which expect it? =

  Nothing else needs or uses it.

  >    Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the =

  > HTML element
  > =20

  I'm not surprised you can't read because as usual you are purposefully =

  deficient in your understanding of the english language ie.

  "A) Which Word? We're mostly on 2003 with other versions dotted
        about. "

  Odd how you ignored that while wittering on about Word2k3

  >=20
  >     <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
  >     xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
  >     xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
  >=20
  > =20
  > I'm surprised you haven't seen this if you have actually done any =
work=20
  > on this content.  Maybe you are just lying.
  > =20

  Nope it's you who's lying through your teeth as per Rich SOP.

  e.g. a simple bit of text & a small table

  <div class=3DSection1>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal>Some html from word</p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal>Some more</p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal>And now some <span class=3DGramE><b=20
  style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:
  normal'>bold </b><span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>and</span> =
then=20
  some <i
  style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>italic</i> and then some=20
  <u>underlined</u></p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal>Now a table </p>

  <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

  <table class=3DMsoTableGrid border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0
    style=3D'border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:solid=20
  windowtext .5pt;
    mso-yfti-tbllook:480;mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm=20
  5.4pt;mso-border-insideh:
    .5pt solid windowtext;mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext'>
    <tr style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes'>
     <td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
  windowtext 1.0pt;
     mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
     <p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1</p>
     </td>
     <td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
  windowtext 1.0pt;
     border-left:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext=20
  .5pt;mso-border-alt:
     solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
     <p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2</p>
     </td>
    </tr>
    <tr style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
     <td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
  windowtext 1.0pt;
     border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid windowtext=20
  .5pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;
     padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
     <p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1-2</p>
     </td>
     <td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop=20
  style=3D'width:213.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:
     none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid=20
  windowtext 1.0pt;
     mso-border-top-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid=20
  windowtext .5pt;
     mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
     <p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2-2</p>
     </td>
    </tr>
  </table>

  Look at that crap.

  (A) Check all the MsoNormal bollox everywhere.
  (B) Given that Word HTML can use classes etc to the degree that it=20
  plasters msoNormal on just about anything then how come each s*dding =
td=20
  needs the same crappy styling info e.g.

  style=3D'width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =

  windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm =
5.4pt=20
  0cm 5.4pt'

  Why not then have a CSS section called "td.Mso" or whatever

  for table you have :

    table.MsoNormalTable which contains all the style info for a Word-ML =

  table but then to moment you get into something which will repeat i.e. =

  will take up far more text than table.......you fall back to slapping =
in=20
  tons of element specific styling which turns out not to be element=20
  specific i.e. every td has the same styling info applied to it.

  i.e. there is no consistency or logic applied to the HTML, sometimes=20
  it's class based css, other times it's direct inclusion of a style=20
  attribute. There is no reason for this apart from a slipshod approach=20
  probably tied to delivery dates & "it works so ship it" mentality.


  Also note how you comment wrt

  "Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the =
HTML=20
  element" is also total crap as all the HTML 4 stuff is simply using no =

  namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely irrelevant =
&=20
  as usual a canard.


  Adam
------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C7491A.704C3B90
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16397" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Don't ask me but your =
definition of=20
crap includes standard compliant.&nbsp; It appears that you use the term =
"crap"=20
for things you wish to whine about without regard to other factors like=20
standards.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; MsoNormal is the name of =
the HTML/CSS=20
class.&nbsp; I'll refer you to the HTML and CSS standards for a = description
of=20
how this works.&nbsp; The name doesn't matter.&nbsp; It could have been=20
AdamIsAnIdiot and it would still be standards compliant.&nbsp; Assuming =
the=20
presence of a class when not declared is a violation of the =
standards.&nbsp;=20
Again, I'll refer you to the HTML and CSS standards for a description of =
how=20
this works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I was describing Word 2003 =
though the=20
same applies to Word 2007.&nbsp; I give you the html element with the = XML=20
namespaces and you try to refute this by excerpting some other portion = of
a=20
document.&nbsp; Are you dim?&nbsp; You fly totally off the handle with =
your=20
comment</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#008000=20
  size=3D3>HTML 4 stuff is simply using no <BR>namespace/default =
namespace i.e.=20
  the comment is completely irrelevant &amp; <BR>as usual a=20
  canard.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Look at the html element again and note =
that a=20
default namespace is provided.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Ad" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Dobbin@theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com">Dobbin@theStablesC=
loseToTheAirport.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:45c6fec1@w3.nls.net">news:45c6fec1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>Ri=
ch=20
  wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Good that you now acknowledge that =
the HTML=20
  is standards compliant.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Things can be standards =
compliant while=20
  still being crap &amp; the Word HTML <BR>is crap.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I'm=20
  surprised you suggest non-compliance with a hack like "if no class =
<BR>&gt;=20
  set assume MsoNormal upon rendering".&nbsp; You're really being a =
hypocrite=20
  here.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>Ummm no. What use is MsoNormal except to =
MS crap=20
  apps which expect it? <BR>Nothing else needs or uses=20
  it.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you =
should=20
  have noticed from the <BR>&gt; HTML element<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>I'm =
not=20
  surprised you can't read because as usual you are purposefully =
<BR>deficient=20
  in your understanding of the english language ie.<BR><BR>"A) Which =
Word? We're=20
  mostly on 2003 with other versions =
dotted<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  about. "<BR><BR>Odd how you ignored that while wittering on about=20
  Word2k3<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;html=20
  =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
  =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  xmlns=3D"<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40<=
/A>"&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; I'm surprised you haven't seen this if you =
have=20
  actually done any work <BR>&gt; on this content.&nbsp; Maybe you are =
just=20
  lying.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>Nope it's you who's lying through your =
teeth as=20
  per Rich SOP.<BR><BR>e.g. a simple bit of text &amp; a small=20
  table<BR><BR>&lt;div class=3DSection1&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;p =
class=3DMsoNormal&gt;Some=20
  html from word&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;p=20
  =
class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
  class=3DMsoNormal&gt;Some more&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;p=20
  =
class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
  class=3DMsoNormal&gt;And now some &lt;span class=3DGramE&gt;&lt;b=20
  <BR>style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:<BR>normal'&gt;bold =
&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span=20
  style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'&gt; &lt;/span&gt;and&lt;/span&gt; then =
<BR>some=20
  &lt;i<BR>style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'&gt;italic&lt;/i&gt; and =
then some=20
  <BR>&lt;u&gt;underlined&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;p=20
  =
class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
  =
class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
  class=3DMsoNormal&gt;Now a table &lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;p=20
  =
class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;<BR><BR>&=
lt;table=20
  class=3DMsoTableGrid border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 =
cellpadding=3D0<BR>&nbsp;=20
  style=3D'border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:solid=20
  <BR>windowtext .5pt;<BR>&nbsp; =
mso-yfti-tbllook:480;mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt=20
  0cm <BR>5.4pt;mso-border-insideh:<BR>&nbsp; .5pt solid=20
  windowtext;mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext'&gt;<BR>&nbsp; =
&lt;tr=20
  style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes'&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&lt;td=20
  width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
  1.0pt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; mso-border-alt:solid windowtext =
.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt=20
  0cm 5.4pt'&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;p=20
  class=3DMsoNormal&gt;Tab1&lt;/p&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&lt;/td&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &lt;td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
  1.0pt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; border-left:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid =
windowtext=20
  <BR>.5pt;mso-border-alt:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; solid windowtext =
.5pt;padding:0cm=20
  5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;p=20
  class=3DMsoNormal&gt;Tab2&lt;/p&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&lt;/td&gt;<BR>&nbsp;=20
  &lt;/tr&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;tr=20
  style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&lt;td=20
  width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
  1.0pt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid =
windowtext=20
  <BR>.5pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
padding:0cm=20
  5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;p=20
  class=3DMsoNormal&gt;Tab1-2&lt;/p&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &lt;/td&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop=20
  =
<BR>style=3D'width:213.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =

  none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
  1.0pt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; mso-border-top-alt:solid windowtext=20
  .5pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid <BR>windowtext .5pt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm=20
  5.4pt'&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;p=20
  class=3DMsoNormal&gt;Tab2-2&lt;/p&gt;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&lt;/td&gt;<BR>&nbsp;=20
  &lt;/tr&gt;<BR>&lt;/table&gt;<BR><BR>Look at that crap.<BR><BR>(A) =
Check all=20
  the MsoNormal bollox everywhere.<BR>(B) Given that Word HTML can use =
classes=20
  etc to the degree that it <BR>plasters msoNormal on just about =
anything then=20
  how come each s*dding td <BR>needs the same crappy styling info=20
  e.g.<BR><BR>style=3D'width=3D284 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
  <BR>windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm =
5.4pt=20
  <BR>0cm 5.4pt'<BR><BR>Why not then have a CSS section called "td.Mso" =
or=20
  whatever<BR><BR>for table you have :<BR><BR>&nbsp; =
table.MsoNormalTable which=20
  contains all the style info for a Word-ML <BR>table but then to moment =
you get=20
  into something which will repeat i.e. <BR>will take up far more text =
than=20
  table.......you fall back to slapping in <BR>tons of element specific =
styling=20
  which turns out not to be element <BR>specific i.e. every td has the =
same=20
  styling info applied to it.<BR><BR>i.e. there is no consistency or =
logic=20
  applied to the HTML, sometimes <BR>it's class based css, other times =
it's=20
  direct inclusion of a style <BR>attribute. There is no reason for this =
apart=20
  from a slipshod approach <BR>probably tied to delivery dates &amp; "it =
works=20
  so ship it" mentality.<BR><BR><BR>Also note how you comment =
wrt<BR><BR>"Word=20
  2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the HTML =
<BR>element"=20
  is also total crap as all the HTML 4 stuff is simply using no=20
  <BR>namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely =
irrelevant=20
  &amp; <BR>as usual a =
canard.<BR><BR><BR>Adam</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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