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Text 16111, 142 rader
Skriven 2007-02-14 21:33:50 av Rich (1:379/45)
  Kommentar till text 16110 av Antti Kurenniemi (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Hacker, Microsoft duke it out over Vista design
===========================================================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   There is no gaining of admin privileges.  When a setup program =
without a manifest declaring its intended behavior is run a prompt is =
presented to the user.  That is the key.  Without this detection the = program
would otherwise have run as normal and would likely have = silently failed. 
The need for a heuristic goes away when ISVs start = declaring whether their
setup applications require elevation or not.

   The complaint of the "hacker" is that she believes users should have =
to choose between three options not two with the third being, run but = not
elevated.  I'm sure this can be debated on and on.  Three options is = more
complex to users than two and if the user chooses wrong then the = setup
program may appear to work but actually does not.  That is bad and = you can't
expect users to know which is which.  This is for setup = programs, something
the user will run rarely.  The resulting = application, unless it requires or
requests it, does not prompt for = elevation.  This is also a legacy issue. 
ISVs should be declaring their = elevation behavior.  The documentation for how
to do this has been = available for a while.  When declared the heuristics
don't apply.  In = other words, the issue will become moot.

Rich

  "Antti Kurenniemi" <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote in message =
news:45d3ecf6@w3.nls.net...
  "mike" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
  news:qp47t217su4asisj0on59nndl7q4294lar@4ax.com...
  > That's because Vista uses a compatibility database and
  > several heuristics to recognize installer executables and,
  > every time the OS detects that an executable is a setup
  > program, "it will only allow running it as administrator."

  So, I would only need to figure out the heuristics rule set, and then =
I=20
  could make my virus look like a setup executable and gain =
administrator=20
  privileges? Well that's just great. Wanna bet that it's already done? =
Just=20
  about the stupidest thing in the world, to let a computer use =
heuristics to=20
  decide if an executable should be given full access...


  Antti Kurenniemi


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16397" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; There is no gaining of =
admin=20
privileges.&nbsp; When a setup program without a manifest declaring its =
intended=20
behavior is run a prompt is presented to the user.&nbsp; That is the =
key.&nbsp;=20
Without this detection the program would otherwise have run as normal = and
would=20
likely have silently failed.&nbsp; The need for a heuristic goes away = when
ISVs=20
start declaring whether their setup applications require elevation or=20
not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The complaint of the =
"hacker" is that=20
she believes users should have to choose between three options not two = with
the=20
third being, run but not elevated.&nbsp; I'm sure this can be debated on =
and=20
on.&nbsp; Three options is more complex to users than two and if the = user=20
chooses wrong then the setup program may appear to work but actually = does=20
not.&nbsp; That is bad and you can't expect users to know which is =
which.&nbsp;=20
This is for setup programs, something the user will run rarely.&nbsp; = The=20
resulting application, unless it requires or requests it, does not = prompt
for=20
elevation.&nbsp; This is also a legacy issue.&nbsp; ISVs should be =
declaring=20
their elevation behavior.&nbsp; The documentation for how to do this has =
been=20
available for a while.&nbsp; When declared the heuristics don't = apply.&nbsp;
In=20
other words, the issue will become moot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Antti Kurenniemi" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:45d3ecf6@w3.nls.net">news:45d3ecf6@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>"m=
ike"=20
  &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
  <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"news:qp47t217su4asisj0on59nndl7q4294lar@4ax.com">news:qp47t217su4=
asisj0on59nndl7q4294lar@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;=20
  That's because Vista uses a compatibility database and<BR>&gt; several =

  heuristics to recognize installer executables and,<BR>&gt; every time =
the OS=20
  detects that an executable is a setup<BR>&gt; program, "it will only =
allow=20
  running it as administrator."<BR><BR>So, I would only need to figure =
out the=20
  heuristics rule set, and then I <BR>could make my virus look like a =
setup=20
  executable and gain administrator <BR>privileges? Well that's just =
great.=20
  Wanna bet that it's already done? Just <BR>about the stupidest thing =
in the=20
  world, to let a computer use heuristics to <BR>decide if an executable =
should=20
  be given full access...<BR><BR><BR>Antti=20
Kurenniemi<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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