Text 16309, 277 rader
Skriven 2007-02-19 20:05:14 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 16297 av Rich Gauszka (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Legacy setup program behavior
=========================================
From: "Rich" <@>
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This is entirely an app compat issue for legacy installers not =
anything that should be relevant as ISVs release new products. There is = a
mechanism defined for any application to declare its elevation = behavior and
one specifically for installers that use Windows Installer. =
See http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa372468.aspx for Using =
Windows Installer with UAC. See =
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480150.aspx for info on = developing
applications. The Certified for Windows Vista logo requires = that all EXEs
declare their execution level. See =
http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/4/8e4c929d-679a-4238-8c21-2dcc=
8ed1f35c/Windows%20Vista%20Software%20Logo%20Spec%201.1.doc.
Rich
"Rich Gauszka" <gauszka@dontspamhotmail.com> wrote in message =
news:45da0ce1$3@w3.nls.net...
I don't read that in Russinovich's response as he does admit there is =
a=20
problem and admit that Vista's administration escalation on the =
installer is=20
intentional. Only time will tell if Vista's 'usability' makes for a =
happy=20
hacker and Microsoft's design choice was poor .
It does seem though that Microsoft's security concern these days is =
more=20
with tightening the screws to wga rather than worry about mundane user =
related security issues
=
http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/19/microsofts-ballmer-blames-poor-vista-sal=
es-on-piracy/
"Gary Britt" <GaryNOSPAMBritt@generalcogster.com> wrote in message=20
news:45da06e5$1@w3.nls.net...
> Its said to see Russinovich lend his credibility to the spin machine =
at=20
> Microsoft. Am I the only one who thinks this? I'm sure he's =
getting paid=20
> really well and any of us would have sold out just like him, but its =
still=20
> sad nonetheless.
>
> Gary
>
> Rich Gauszka wrote:
>> "I would like to be offered a choice whether to fully trust a given =
>> installer executable [and run it as full administrator] or just =
allow it=20
>> to add a folder in C:\Program Files and some keys under =
HKLM\Software and=20
>> do nothing more."
>>
>> "I could do that under Windows XP, but apparently I can't under =
Vista,=20
>> which is a bit disturbing."
>>
>>
>> =
http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=3D46057&src=3Dsite-marq
>>
>> Rutkowska discovered that when Vista detects that the user is =
running an=20
>> installation file it kicks into full admin mode.
>>
>> If a user wishes to install a new program they are presented with =
the=20
>> option either to allow the installer complete system privileges or =
not to=20
>> run the program at all.
>>
>> Rutkowska wrote on her Invisible Things blog: "That means that if =
you=20
>> downloaded some freeware Tetris game, you will have to run its =
installer=20
>> as administrator, giving it full access to all your file system and =
>> registry, and allowing it to load kernel drivers! Why should a =
Tetris=20
>> installer be allowed to load kernel drivers?
>>
>> "I would like to be offered a choice whether to fully trust a given =
>> installer executable [and run it as full administrator] or just =
allow it=20
>> to add a folder in C:\Program Files and some keys under =
HKLM\Software and=20
>> do nothing more.
>>
>> "I could do that under Windows XP, but apparently I can't under =
Vista,=20
>> which is a bit disturbing."
>>
>> A few days after her posting there was a lengthy and detailed =
response=20
>> from Mark Russinovich, a Technical Fellow at Microsoft.
>>
>> Russinovich essentially admitted that, while the problem exists, it =
was a=20
>> design choice that stemmed from the balance between security and=20
>> usability.
>>
>> "Because elevations and integrity levels do not define a security=20
>> boundary, potential avenues of attack, regardless of ease or scope, =
are=20
>> not security bugs, " he said.
>>
>> In light of the huge security campaign surrounding Windows Vista in =
2006,=20
>> Rutkowska said in a follow up posting that this explanation simply =
is not=20
>> good enough and that Microsoft should attempt to solve the problem =
rather=20
>> than try and dismiss the issue.=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> This is entirely an app =
compat issue=20
for legacy installers not anything that should be relevant as ISVs = release
new=20
products. There is a mechanism defined for any application to = declare
its=20
elevation behavior and one specifically for installers that use Windows=20
Installer. See <A=20
href=3D"http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa372468.aspx">http://ms=
dn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa372468.aspx</A> for=20
Using Windows Installer with UAC. See <A=20
href=3D"http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480150.aspx">http://ms=
dn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480150.aspx</A> for=20
info on developing applications. The Certified for Windows Vista =
logo=20
requires that all EXEs declare their execution level. See <A=20
href=3D"http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/4/8e4c929d-679a-4238-8=
c21-2dcc8ed1f35c/Windows%20Vista%20Software%20Logo%20Spec%201.1.doc">http=
://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/4/8e4c929d-679a-4238-8c21-2dcc8ed1=
f35c/Windows%20Vista%20Software%20Logo%20Spec%201.1.doc</A>.</FONT></DIV>=
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich Gauszka" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:gauszka@dontspamhotmail.com">gauszka@dontspamhotmail.com</=
A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:45da0ce1$3@w3.nls.net">news:45da0ce1$3@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>I=20
don't read that in Russinovich's response as he does admit there is a=20
<BR>problem and admit that Vista's administration escalation on the =
installer=20
is <BR>intentional. Only time will tell if Vista's 'usability' makes =
for a=20
happy <BR>hacker and Microsoft's design choice was poor .<BR><BR>It =
does seem=20
though that Microsoft's security concern these days is more <BR>with=20
tightening the screws to wga rather than worry about mundane user =
<BR>related=20
security issues<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/19/microsofts-ballmer-blames-poor-v=
ista-sales-on-piracy/">http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/19/microsofts-ballme=
r-blames-poor-vista-sales-on-piracy/</A><BR><BR><BR>"Gary=20
Britt" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:GaryNOSPAMBritt@generalcogster.com">GaryNOSPAMBritt@genera=
lcogster.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:45da06e5$1@w3.nls.net">news:45da06e5$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>=20
Its said to see Russinovich lend his credibility to the spin machine =
at=20
<BR>> Microsoft. Am I the only one who thinks this? I'm =
sure=20
he's getting paid <BR>> really well and any of us would have sold =
out just=20
like him, but its still <BR>> sad nonetheless.<BR>><BR>>=20
Gary<BR>><BR>> Rich Gauszka wrote:<BR>>> "I would like to =
be=20
offered a choice whether to fully trust a given <BR>>> installer =
executable [and run it as full administrator] or just allow it =
<BR>>> to=20
add a folder in C:\Program Files and some keys under HKLM\Software and =
<BR>>> do nothing more."<BR>>><BR>>> "I could do =
that under=20
Windows XP, but apparently I can't under Vista, <BR>>> which is =
a bit=20
disturbing."<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=3D46057&src=3D=
site-marq">http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=3D46057&src=
=3Dsite-marq</A><BR>>><BR>>>=20
Rutkowska discovered that when Vista detects that the user is running =
an=20
<BR>>> installation file it kicks into full admin=20
mode.<BR>>><BR>>> If a user wishes to install a new =
program they=20
are presented with the <BR>>> option either to allow the =
installer=20
complete system privileges or not to <BR>>> run the program at=20
all.<BR>>><BR>>> Rutkowska wrote on her Invisible Things =
blog:=20
"That means that if you <BR>>> downloaded some freeware Tetris =
game, you=20
will have to run its installer <BR>>> as administrator, giving =
it full=20
access to all your file system and <BR>>> registry, and allowing =
it to=20
load kernel drivers! Why should a Tetris <BR>>> installer be =
allowed to=20
load kernel drivers?<BR>>><BR>>> "I would like to be =
offered a=20
choice whether to fully trust a given <BR>>> installer =
executable [and=20
run it as full administrator] or just allow it <BR>>> to add a =
folder in=20
C:\Program Files and some keys under HKLM\Software and <BR>>> do =
nothing=20
more.<BR>>><BR>>> "I could do that under Windows XP, but=20
apparently I can't under Vista, <BR>>> which is a bit=20
disturbing."<BR>>><BR>>> A few days after her posting =
there was a=20
lengthy and detailed response <BR>>> from Mark Russinovich, a =
Technical=20
Fellow at Microsoft.<BR>>><BR>>> Russinovich essentially =
admitted=20
that, while the problem exists, it was a <BR>>> design choice =
that=20
stemmed from the balance between security and <BR>>>=20
usability.<BR>>><BR>>> "Because elevations and integrity =
levels do=20
not define a security <BR>>> boundary, potential avenues of =
attack,=20
regardless of ease or scope, are <BR>>> not security bugs, " he=20
said.<BR>>><BR>>> In light of the huge security campaign=20
surrounding Windows Vista in 2006, <BR>>> Rutkowska said in a =
follow up=20
posting that this explanation simply is not <BR>>> good enough =
and that=20
Microsoft should attempt to solve the problem rather <BR>>> than =
try and=20
dismiss the issue. <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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