Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4785
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1117
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   2794
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13064
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2055
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4277
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   28515
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2017
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6000
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33806
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   23541
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12847
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4193
FN_SYSOP   41525
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13585
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16053
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22012
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   900
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 17016, 135 rader
Skriven 2007-03-11 13:56:54 av Rich Gauszka (1:379/45)
  Kommentar till text 17013 av mike (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Apple May Use Flash Memory For Notebooks
====================================================
From: "Rich Gauszka" <gauszka@dontspamhotmail.com>

Hopefully they'll use an exceptional algorithm to access the NAND

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2185129745.html
Okay. So NAND is not perfect. Actually, as a raw material, NAND flash comes out
of the fab with a lot of problems that can only be corrected with up-to-date
flash management software. Below is a sampling of these problems.

    * Physical vs. logical mapping -- Flash media is organized in physical
blocks, or erase units, which are further divided into physical sectors.
Standard file system calls specifying hard disk sector numbers and cylinders
cannot be used to access data on the flash media. Dynamic virtual mapping is
required, in order to map the file system model to the flash physical model.

    * Time-consuming and life-reducing P/E cycle -- To write, or program new
data, existing data must first be erased. The process of erasing and
programming is known as the P/E cycle. Each flash sector can withstand a
limited number of P/E cycles before it becomes unusable. When this happens,
overall capacity is gradually reduced, existing data becomes prone to random
errors and application and OS code can quickly become corrupted, increasing the
likelihood of total application failure. As manufacturing geometries shrink and
the density of flash media increases, more complex error checking and
re-writing is required. This further reduces the usable lifespan of the media,
degrades performance and increases power consumption. Advanced dynamic and
static wear leveling is required to extend the lifespan of the media,
especially when it stores critical data such as OS and configuration files.

    * Randomly scattered bad blocks -- MLC NAND media are knowingly shipped
from the fab, with up to 5 percent randomly scattered bad blocks. In addition
to the "initial" bad blocks, normal wear from writing and erasing cause
additional blocks to become corrupted, and eventually unusable. Bad blocks need
to be located and tracked, so that they are avoided during write operations.

    * Bit flipping and bit pairing -- A bit can reverse its charge or be
reported as reversed. If even a single bit reverses in a block that stores boot
code, OS, or configuration files, the reliability of the device could be
compromised. In MLC NAND, two or more bits are stored in each physical cell of
the flash media. If a single bit is corrupted (by a power disturbance or
software error during a write operation) it corrupts its paired bit in the
cell, even if the paired bit had already been written successfully. What's
worse, bit-pairing schemes differ between NAND flash vendors, and even between
different NAND generations from the same vendor. Innovative error detection
code (EDC) and error correction code (ECC) must be used to ensure data
reliability without negatively impacting performance. EDC and ECC need to take
into account the different types of NAND flash errors (bit flipping, bit
pairing, charge drift, etc.) and the different ways that they manifest from
vendor to vendor.

    * Data retention errors -- Over time, current leakage or charge drift
can slowly change a cell's voltage level, which could incorrectly be
interpreted as a different logical value. This impacts data retention, which is
a measure of how long data can be stored without deteriorating to the point
where error detection and correction can no longer correct the errors.

    * Power failure immunity -- In flash memory, the P/E cycle uses "erase
before write" algorithms, which can lead to longer write cycles more likely to
be interrupted during power failures, leading to lost or corrupted data and
code. Advanced flash management technologies implement "erase after write"
algorithms to ensure data integrity during normal operation and in the event of
a power failure.

LC NAND flash technology -- more trouble

Increasing NAND flash bits per cell density reduces cost and size, but
exacerbates flash limitations, degrading reliability, performance and flash
lifespan -- further complicating ease-of-integration. In flash devices that
implement standard Single Level Cell (SLC) technology, one bit of data is
stored per cell, using two voltage levels. Multi-Level Cell (MLC) stores two
bits of data per cell, using four voltage levels. MLC is the most advanced,
cost-effective NAND technology to date. But, it also presents unsurpassed
complexity, requiring far more complex management technologies. "mike"
<mike@barkto.com> wrote in message
news:avf8v2lmf8l3icgctcv54r52c7gmr2gbbs@4ax.com...
>
> NOR flash - 100,000 cycles
> NAND flash - 1.000.000 cycles
>
>
> http://www.eepn.com/Locator/Products/Index.cfm?Ad=1&ArticleID=34509
>
> ===
> ...
> Made up of gates, there are basically two types of flash memory devices:
> NOR and NAND. In operation, NOR flash performs like the typical RAM
> found in a computer, allowing direct access to a byte or bytes of space
> regardless of their position in the storage space. In use, NOR flash may
> be used to store a component's application-specific software, such as
> firmware in a router or a computer's BIOS. NOR flash specifies a working
> life of around 100,000 write cycles before developing bad blocks.
>
> About a year after Intel unveiled the first NOR flash device, Toshiba
> developed NAND flash, which relies on flash-translation software that
> makes the device appear as a hard-disk drive to the operating system.
> This type of flash exhibits three distinct advantages over its NOR
> counterpart: a longer lifespan in the realm of one million read/write
> cycles, faster read/write times, and lower cost. In addition, NAND flash
> is capable of retaining larger chunks of data for either long- or
> short-term storage. The NAND devices are more useful for storing data
> collected by or downloaded to a product, i.e., information from a data
> logger, photos/video from a digital camera, music files on a MP3 player,
> and so forth.
>
> A more recent and third type of flash is OneNAND flash. Created by
> Samsung, it supports faster data throughputs and higher densities, two
> major requirements for high-resolution photography, video, and other
> media applications. OneNAND could be viewed as a kind of hybrid of both
> NOR and NAND technologies. Essentially, a single OneNAND chip integrates
> a NOR flash interface, NAND-flash controller logic, a NAND-flash array,
> and as much as 5 KB of buffer RAM. In terms of speed, it can deliver
> sustained read rates up to 108 MB/s.
> ...
> ===
>
>  /m
>
>
>
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:21:35 -0400, "Rich Gauszka"
> <gauszka@dontspamhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What's the current guaranteed erase - rewrite cycle limit on flash?  I
>>thought I saw something like 10,000 times before all bets are off.  If so,
>>a
>>rather unsophisticated program could blow away your flash drive in minutes
>>
>>
>>"mike" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message
>>news:ht68v218901gqiv2340hu4u2p5b59h60gv@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197801483
>>>

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)