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Text 1749, 260 rader
Skriven 2005-01-03 19:40:28 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 1748 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================

From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   I do trust some of my phones to store info.  I don't have my phone =
store the info that concerns me that businesses with whom I deal will =
protect.  My computer doesn't store that either.  I can ensure the = latter
because I have control of my computer and what it saves.  Same = for my
telephones.

   You aren't answering my questions.  I suspect it is because they =
point out that you can't defend the claims you are making.

Rich

  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net...
  But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you =
required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a =
difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it = back
whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would = that
change your view of that secure telephone?

  I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to purchase =
stuff, they just have a problem (or are learning to have a problem) with = the
computer remembering too much sensitive information.

  Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple =
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.

  Geo.
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
       I still disagree.  You are mixing trust in the computer and trust =
in the content viewed with the computer.  I don't trust telemarketers = but I
do not confuse that with trust of the telephone.  I'm sure you = make the
latter distinction.  Don't you make the former?  You have made = plenty of
claims in this groups that indicate that you do.

       If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in then =
you should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs.  That is the = analogous
scenario.  Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people = have been
exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe = land lines too. 
Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement = which has a long
history of listening to phone conversations.  Now my = concerns are very
different from yours.  I don't fear someone listening = to me communicating a
CC number or other PII.  My concern is the = business to which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information.  = There are plenty of examples of this.   Try
asking your bank if they can =
tell you which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?

    Rich

      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
      >>   I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion that
      your example supports it.  In fact your story argues against your
      conclusion.  People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they visit
      and the email they receive.  If they did not many problems these =
people
      encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting =
something they
      should not.<<

      That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not to =
trust their
      computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected =
by an email
      attachment.

      >>   When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, the =
PC is the
      one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over  which you =
have any
      control.  Even non-techical users have control as you do not need =
to
      understand how things work to control them  (e.g. TV).  <<

      There is a difference between trusting a computer like you trust a =
telephone
      and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit =
card. I have
      no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone =
because it's
      unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with =
allowing the
      telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I =
trust to be
      secure with storing that sort of information.

      Geo.


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.1289" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I do trust some of my =
phones to store=20
info.&nbsp; I don't have my phone store the info that concerns me that=20
businesses with whom I deal will protect.&nbsp; My computer doesn't = store
that=20
either.&nbsp; I can ensure the latter because I have control of my = computer
and=20
what it saves.&nbsp; Same for my telephones.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You aren't answering my=20
questions.&nbsp; I suspect it is because they point out that you can't =
defend=20
the claims you are making.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net">news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But do you trust your telephone to =
store your=20
  information or are you required to provide that information via the =
telephone?=20
  There is a difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and =
would=20
  play it back whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, =
how=20
  would that change your view of that secure telephone?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't think people have a problem =
with using a=20
  computer to purchase stuff, they just have a problem&nbsp;(or are =
learning to=20
  have a problem) with the computer remembering too much sensitive=20
  information.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try thinking of both the telephone =
and the=20
  computer as simple communications devices, they really are quite =
similar in=20
  that regard.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net">news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I still =
disagree.&nbsp; You are=20
    mixing trust in the computer and trust in the content viewed with =
the=20
    computer.&nbsp; I don't trust telemarketers but I do not confuse =
that with=20
    trust of the telephone.&nbsp; I'm sure you make the latter=20
    distinction.&nbsp; Don't you make the former?&nbsp; You have made =
plenty of=20
    claims in this groups that indicate that you do.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; If you think people =
should be=20
    afraid of folks listening in then you should be encouraging folks to =
fear=20
    their ISPs.&nbsp; That is the analogous scenario.&nbsp; Your =
telephone=20
    analogy is a bad one because people have been exploited by folks =
listening=20
    in on mobile phones and maybe land lines too.&nbsp; Someone else =
claimed a=20
    paranoid fear of law enforcement which has a long history of =
listening to=20
    phone conversations.&nbsp; Now my concerns are very different from=20
    yours.&nbsp; I don't fear someone listening to me communicating a CC =
number=20
    or other PII.&nbsp; My concern is the business to which I =
communicate it=20
    doesn't protect the information.&nbsp; There are plenty of examples =
of=20
    this.&nbsp;&nbsp; Try asking your bank if they can tell you which of =
their=20
    employees has seen your SSN and when?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
      wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>"Rich"=20
      &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the suggestion=20
      that<BR>your example supports it.&nbsp; In fact your story argues =
against=20
      your<BR>conclusion.&nbsp; People do trust their computers and the =
web=20
      sites they visit<BR>and the email they receive.&nbsp; If they did =
not many=20
      problems these people<BR>encounter would not exist as they rely on =
the=20
      users trusting something they<BR>should not.&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>That =
is what=20
      proves my point, I said people are learning not to trust=20
      their<BR>computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting =
infected=20
      by an email<BR>attachment.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; When using =
the=20
      Internet, of all the components to trust, the PC is the<BR>one =
most worthy=20
      of trust as it is the only one over&nbsp; which you have=20
      any<BR>control.&nbsp; Even non-techical users have control as you =
do not=20
      need to<BR>understand how things work to control them&nbsp; (e.g.=20
      TV).&nbsp; &lt;&lt;<BR><BR>There is a difference between trusting =
a=20
      computer like you trust a telephone<BR>and trusting it like you =
would=20
      trust someone with your credit card. I have<BR>no problem telling =
a vendor=20
      my CC number over the telephone because it's<BR>unlikely someone =
is=20
      listening in, I do have a problem with allowing the<BR>telephone =
to=20
      remember my CC number because it's not a device I trust to =
be<BR>secure=20
      with storing that sort of=20
  =
information.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BODY></HTML>

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