Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4779
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1117
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   2632
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13030
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2055
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4275
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   27601
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/1974
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   5999
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33773
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   23439
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12841
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4155
FN_SYSOP   41520
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13557
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16041
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22002
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   894
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 1754, 279 rader
Skriven 2005-01-03 23:40:56 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================

From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0241_01C4F1ED.AC6F3950
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   The key distinction is that with the former you are in control while =
with the latter the other party is.

   I have plenty of examples of the latter.  The former has never been a =
problem for me or anyone I know.  George hasn't given any indication it = has
ever been for him.  Has it been for you?

Rich

  "Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message =
news:m5ekt0pm0n26m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com...
  You and Rich are talking past each other and both of you are making
  valid points.

  I agree with you about letting the O/S remember stuff like credit card
  numbers.

  I agree with Rich about what the people to whom I freely GIVE my =
credit
  card number are doing with the information.

  On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0500, "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in
  message <41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net>:

  >But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you =
required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a =
difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it = back
whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would = that
change your view of that secure telephone?
  >
  >I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to purchase =
stuff, they just have a problem (or are learning to have a problem) with = the
computer remembering too much sensitive information.
  >
  >Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple =
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.
  >
  >Geo.
  >  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
  >     I still disagree.  You are mixing trust in the computer and =
trust in the content viewed with the computer.  I don't trust = telemarketers
but I do not confuse that with trust of the telephone.  = I'm sure you make the
latter distinction.  Don't you make the former?  = You have made plenty of
claims in this groups that indicate that you do.
  >
  >     If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in then =
you should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs.  That is the = analogous
scenario.  Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people = have been
exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe = land lines too. 
Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement = which has a long
history of listening to phone conversations.  Now my = concerns are very
different from yours.  I don't fear someone listening = to me communicating a
CC number or other PII.  My concern is the = business to which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information.  = There are plenty of examples of this.   Try
asking your bank if they can =
tell you which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?
  >
  >  Rich
  >
  >    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
  >    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
  >    >>   I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion that
  >    your example supports it.  In fact your story argues against your
  >    conclusion.  People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they visit
  >    and the email they receive.  If they did not many problems these =
people
  >    encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting =
something they
  >    should not.<<
  >
  >    That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not to =
trust their
  >    computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected =
by an email
  >    attachment.
  >
  >    >>   When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, the =
PC is the
  >    one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over  which you =
have any
  >    control.  Even non-techical users have control as you do not need =
to
  >    understand how things work to control them  (e.g. TV).  <<
  >
  >    There is a difference between trusting a computer like you trust =
a telephone
  >    and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit =
card. I have
  >    no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone =
because it's
  >    unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with =
allowing the
  >    telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I =
trust to be
  >    secure with storing that sort of information.
  >
  >    Geo.

------=_NextPart_000_0241_01C4F1ED.AC6F3950
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.1289" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The key distinction is =
that with the=20
former you are in control while with the latter the other party =
is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I have plenty of examples =
of the=20
latter.&nbsp; The former has never been a problem for me or anyone I =
know.&nbsp;=20
George hasn't given any indication it has ever been for him.&nbsp; Has = it
been=20
for you?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Ellen K." &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com">72322.enno.esspe=
ayem.1016@compuserve.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:m5ekt0pm0n26m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com">news:m5ekt0pm0n2=
6m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>You=20
  and Rich are talking past each other and both of you are =
making<BR>valid=20
  points.<BR><BR>I agree with you about letting the O/S remember stuff =
like=20
  credit card<BR>numbers.<BR><BR>I agree with Rich about what the people =
to whom=20
  I freely GIVE my credit<BR>card number are doing with the=20
  information.<BR><BR>On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0500, "Geo" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in<BR>message=20
  &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net">41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net</A>&gt;:<BR><=
BR>&gt;But=20
  do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you =
required to=20
  provide that information via the telephone? There is a difference, if =
your=20
  telephone recorded your CC number and would play it back whenever =
someone hit=20
  the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would that change your view =
of that=20
  secure telephone?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I don't think people have a problem =
with=20
  using a computer to purchase stuff, they just have a problem (or are =
learning=20
  to have a problem) with the computer remembering too much sensitive=20
  information.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Try thinking of both the telephone and the =

  computer as simple communications devices, they really are quite =
similar in=20
  that regard.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Geo.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote =
in=20
  message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net">news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&gt;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  I still disagree.&nbsp; You are mixing trust in the computer and trust =
in the=20
  content viewed with the computer.&nbsp; I don't trust telemarketers =
but I do=20
  not confuse that with trust of the telephone.&nbsp; I'm sure you make =
the=20
  latter distinction.&nbsp; Don't you make the former?&nbsp; You have =
made=20
  plenty of claims in this groups that indicate that you=20
  do.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If you think people should =
be=20
  afraid of folks listening in then you should be encouraging folks to =
fear=20
  their ISPs.&nbsp; That is the analogous scenario.&nbsp; Your telephone =
analogy=20
  is a bad one because people have been exploited by folks listening in =
on=20
  mobile phones and maybe land lines too.&nbsp; Someone else claimed a =
paranoid=20
  fear of law enforcement which has a long history of listening to phone =

  conversations.&nbsp; Now my concerns are very different from =
yours.&nbsp; I=20
  don't fear someone listening to me communicating a CC number or other=20
  PII.&nbsp; My concern is the business to which I communicate it =
doesn't=20
  protect the information.&nbsp; There are plenty of examples of=20
  this.&nbsp;&nbsp; Try asking your bank if they can tell you which of =
their=20
  employees has seen your SSN and when?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
  Rich<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Geo" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; I disagree with your conclusion and even more =
with the=20
  suggestion that<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; your example supports =
it.&nbsp; In=20
  fact your story argues against your<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  conclusion.&nbsp; People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they=20
  visit<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and the email they receive.&nbsp; If =
they did=20
  not many problems these people<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; encounter =
would not=20
  exist as they rely on the users trusting something=20
  they<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; should=20
  not.&lt;&lt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That is what proves my =
point, I=20
  said people are learning not to trust their<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected by an =

  email<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
attachment.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; When using the Internet, of all the components to =
trust,=20
  the PC is the<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; one most worthy of trust as it =
is the=20
  only one over&nbsp; which you have any<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  control.&nbsp; Even non-techical users have control as you do not need =

  to<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; understand how things work to control =
them&nbsp;=20
  (e.g. TV).&nbsp; &lt;&lt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is a =

  difference between trusting a computer like you trust a=20
  telephone<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and trusting it like you would =
trust=20
  someone with your credit card. I have<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; no =
problem=20
  telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone because=20
  it's<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; unlikely someone is listening in, I do =
have a=20
  problem with allowing the<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; telephone to =
remember my=20
  CC number because it's not a device I trust to =
be<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  secure with storing that sort of=20
  information.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Geo.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0241_01C4F1ED.AC6F3950--

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)