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Text 1780, 247 rader
Skriven 2005-01-05 18:34:22 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 1778 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================

From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   You are all over the map.  I remember your mention of autologon.  We =
discussed it if you remember.  Please don't try to claim that it = indicates
that people don't trust their computers.  That would be = nonsense.  All your
examples have been problems that other people have = that you claim imply that
they distrust the computer instead of the = people behind their problems.

   Email viruses are not a problem for anyone I know as they rarely get =
any and when they do the AV software blocks it.  You may have to deal = with
folks that are more easily prayed upon or maybe you personally get = rooted
often.  When I am asked why some particular message was blocked = by AV it is
not distrust in the computer that comes up, it is distrust = in the folks that
send the viruses just like there is distrust in the = spammers.  Some folks do
question why the ISPs let this happen but we = shouldn't discuss that as I know
you are very sensitive about how = vulnerable people are to their ISPs and your
attempt to deflect this = elsewhere.

Rich

  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:41dc899c$1@w3.nls.net...
  I haven't made any leaps, I've been trying to explain to you why =
people don't trust their computers. Remember I spoke about the autologin =
thing and the security implications of that on a laptop, you were the = one
talking spyware. And trojans are as common as email virus, how that = compares
to spyware I don't know, there is probably more spyware but = email virus are
quite common. Most email virus lead to rooted systems if = not removed fairly
soon.

  Geo.
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41dc235f@w3.nls.net...
       Now you make the leap from spyware to being trojaned.  That's =
quite a leap.  Common as it may be, trojans are not as common as = spyware.  No
one I know with spyware problems has been rooted.

       I'm sure aunt elma is upset that her computer is sending porn.  I =
would be too.  Are you claiming that aunt elma makes the leap from that, =
however she knew that, to being spied upon without something planting = that
idea in her head?

    Rich

      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41dbcdf2@w3.nls.net...
      You probably need to get exposure to the folks that abuse@ for an =
ISP talks to before you get a real feel for how people respond to being =
trojaned. You are talking about adware, I'm talking about being rooted. = Aunt
Elma may not like the ads that popup, but imagine her reaction when = she's
informed that her computer is being used to send porno spams..

      btw, if you get the chance, pat the sp2 folks on the back for me, =
it really is making a difference.

      Geo.
        "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41db45f2$1@w3.nls.net...
           I disagree with this on several levels.

           First, the folks I know that got infected with spyware were =
not at all concerned with spying and would consider the name a misnomer. =
 Their complaints are popup ads (e.g. adware), home page hijacking, or =
their normal activities (e.g. browsing, email) are broken.  Not a one = has
ever expressed concern or even asked if anyone is spying on them.  = You may
fear this because you are either more sophisticated or more = paranoid.

           None of these people have expressed distrust for their =
computer.  The express distrust in the folks that would pray on them and =
frustration with the computer and their inability to fix things.  Maybe = you
know folks that distrust the thing instead the people or maybe you = are
speaking for yourself.

        Rich


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.1289" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You are all over the =
map.&nbsp; I=20
remember your mention of autologon.&nbsp; We discussed it if you =
remember.&nbsp;=20
Please don't try to claim that it indicates that people don't trust = their=20
computers.&nbsp; That would be nonsense.&nbsp; All your examples have = been=20
problems that other people have that you claim imply that they distrust =
the=20
computer instead of the people behind their problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Email viruses are not a =
problem for=20
anyone I know as they rarely get any and when they do the AV software =
blocks=20
it.&nbsp; You may have to deal with folks that are more easily prayed = upon
or=20
maybe you personally get rooted often.&nbsp; When I am asked why some =
particular=20
message was blocked by AV it is not distrust in the computer that comes = up,
it=20
is distrust in the folks that send the viruses just like there is = distrust
in=20
the spammers.&nbsp; Some folks do question why the ISPs let this happen = but
we=20
shouldn't discuss that as I know you are very sensitive about how =
vulnerable=20
people are to their ISPs and your attempt to deflect this=20
elsewhere.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:41dc899c$1@w3.nls.net">news:41dc899c$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't made any leaps, I've been =
trying to=20
  explain to you why people don't trust their computers. Remember I =
spoke about=20
  the autologin thing and the security implications of that on a laptop, =
you=20
  were the one&nbsp;talking spyware. And trojans are as common as email =
virus,=20
  how that compares to spyware I don't know, there is probably more =
spyware but=20
  email virus are quite common. Most email virus lead to rooted systems =
if not=20
  removed fairly soon.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:41dc235f@w3.nls.net">news:41dc235f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Now you make the leap =
from spyware=20
    to being trojaned.&nbsp; That's quite a leap.&nbsp; Common as it may =
be,=20
    trojans are not as common as spyware.&nbsp; No one I know with =
spyware=20
    problems has been rooted.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm sure aunt elma is =
upset that=20
    her computer is sending porn.&nbsp; I would be too.&nbsp; Are you =
claiming=20
    that aunt elma makes the leap from that, however she knew that, to =
being=20
    spied upon without something planting that idea in her =
head?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
      wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:41dbcdf2@w3.nls.net">news:41dbcdf2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You probably need to get exposure =
to the=20
      folks that abuse@ for an ISP talks to before you get a real feel =
for how=20
      people respond to being trojaned. You are talking about adware, =
I'm=20
      talking about being rooted. Aunt Elma may not like the ads that =
popup, but=20
      imagine her reaction when she's informed that her computer is =
being used=20
      to send porno&nbsp;spams..</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>btw, if you get the chance, pat =
the sp2 folks=20
      on the back for me, it really is making a difference.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:41db45f2$1@w3.nls.net">news:41db45f2$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I disagree with =
this on=20
        several levels.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; First, the folks I =
know that=20
        got infected with spyware were not at all concerned with spying =
and=20
        would consider the name a misnomer.&nbsp; Their complaints are =
popup ads=20
        (e.g. adware), home&nbsp;page hijacking,&nbsp;or their normal =
activities=20
        (e.g. browsing, email) are broken.&nbsp; Not a one has ever =
expressed=20
        concern or even asked if anyone is spying on them.&nbsp; You may =
fear=20
        this because you are either more sophisticated or more=20
        paranoid.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; None of these =
people have=20
        expressed distrust for their computer.&nbsp; The express =
distrust in the=20
        folks that would pray on them and frustration with the computer =
and=20
        their inability to fix things.&nbsp; Maybe you know folks that =
distrust=20
        the thing instead the people or maybe you are speaking for=20
        yourself.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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