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Text 2104, 99 rader
Skriven 2005-01-20 17:48:16 av Ellen K. (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 2072 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Do we protect users from their own stupidity?
=========================================================
From: Ellen K. <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com>

Awhile back I started checking IP addresses on spam myself because using
spamcop is a pain.  So you go to ARIN, and a large percentage of the time it
refers you to RIPE, APNIC or LACNIC.   How many people are
really gonna go through that?

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 06:31:12 -0500, "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message
<41ee4526$1@w3.nls.net>:

>I didn't say know if it's real, I said know if it's faked (as in if it claims
to be from my bank but comes from a road runner dsl line with no reverse dns
then obviously this isn't my bank.)
>
>Again, I'm not trying to verify email, I'm simply trying to describe a feature
that uses existing information in every email and puts that information in a
form that is useful to most users.
>
>Arin registration doesn't require any understanding, if you hit "where did
this come from" and the answer comes back as having originated at an IP address
in Russia and passed thru a machine called mail.ksu.edu located at kent state
university in burton oh then you have more information about the email than you
did before and without having to learn to read headers.
>
>Geo.
>
>"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41edbb74@w3.nls.net...
>     Knowing the IP address doesn't tell you whether the email is valid or not
without more effort.  This is the whole premise behind Sender ID and SPF.  This
level of thumbs up or down I do think is useful.  Exposing all the garbage is
not just useless but undesirable to most users who have neither the skill nor
the interest.
>
>     You may like complaining about spam.  I know folks that do, all
technical.  No one non-technical I know ever thinks of reporting spam.  They
just wish it would go away and delete it.
>
>     Do you really think that even a tiny fraction of people have interest in
let alone understanding of arin registration?  You are living on some other
planet.
>
>  Rich
>
>    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:41eda4e1$1@w3.nls.net...
>    Please notice I said nothing about WHO an email came from (I'm in favor of
anonymous email) but instead I said verifying WHERE an email came from. WHERE
is useful because if you get an email from your bank then being able to verify
that it came from your bank's email server is a way to know if it's been faked.
You may not know anyone at the bank so knowing WHO isn't important.
>
>    Likewise if you receive a spam, knowing where it came from allows you to
complain to the ISP who has the compromised host on their network.
>
>    I'm not suggesting giving the user just the source IP, I'm suggesting much
more than that. Give them arin registration and the abuse or contact address,
maybe even show a map like neotrace shows. But don't go too far, don't have the
email program automatically create a complaint email like the aol file as spam
button did. Make it slightly more difficult than that to file complaints so
that you don't have stupid users hitting "file as spam" instead of delete for
an email they got from aunt martha. They should have to type in the
contact/abuse address to send a complaint email, that way you don't go and
overwhelm the abuse/contact addresses like aol did.
>
>    I think it would be very useful and at the same time not raise much of the
privacy issues that tagging each email with your personal fingerprints would
raise, especially since all this information is already there in the headers or
available online. It's nothing new, it's just a way to make the computer do the
work for the user. I have customers ask me where an email came from quite
often, it's not an unusual request.
>
>    All I'm saying to do is answer that question, where did this email come
from. Nothing more, not a validation process, not a secure email feature, just
a simple answer to a simple question that users ask about an email. It won't
solve any problems, it *will* please users.
>
>    Geo.
>      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41ec6862$1@w3.nls.net...
>         The headers are garbage to most and not intended to be anything but.
They are details of the delivery infrastructure.  If you want a mechanism that
authenticates the identity of the sender you should encourage the use of a
mechanism that provides for this like S/MIME.
>
>         Postal mail is not different.  The return address is what the person
sending the mail choose to use not who he really is.  The postmark usually
isn't useful because it only tells you one place the mail may have been not
where it came from or who sent it.
>
>         I don't believe people would use a "where did this come from" button
both because they don't care and because what you tell them is usually
meaningless.  What do you think most users would do with the IP address of and
maybe one name for the machine that communicated with their ISPs SMTP server? I
can see value in the results of a validation like that provided by Sender ID,
SPF, or similar which gives you something along the lines of thumbs up or
thumbs down.
>
>      Rich

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