Text 2109, 334 rader
Skriven 2005-01-21 08:56:48 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 2107 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Do we protect users from their own stupidity?
=========================================================
From: "Rich" <@>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C4FF97.243DF000
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You keep claiming the information is hiden. It's not. It's just not =
in your face. It shouldn't be. The examples you give are rare. = Virtually
all the time you have no desire for the routing encoding = garbage that means
nothing to virtually everyone.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net...
Say you have a customer who is having some problem getting emails from =
an email list or they keep getting the same email over and over again or = they
got an email hours after it was sent and want to know why or any of = a dozen
other reasons where you need to see information that most email = programs now
hide.
interesting idea of saving the message, changing the extension then =
attaching it to a new email, I may try that one although that still may = be a
bit much to explain to some people.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net...
What kind of email issue? The encoded body parts only matter to =
me when I suspect there is a problem with the encoding in the sending = app.
OE forward is fine. Use Forward As Attachment. Outlook will do =
this but you have to select two or more messages, forward, then delete = the
extra. There may be a simpler way but I know this one works. Still = you
still won't get what you want from any email program because the = RFCs have
specific rules regarding an embedded RFC822 encoded message = that may mandate
re-encoding parts of it. If I'm really concerned I = have people save the
message, rename it with some non-message extension, = then attach the renamed
file.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net...
Yes, pretty much any time you have an email issue you need to =
solve, you have to be able to look at the raw message in it's entirety = or be
able to cut/paste it into another email so you can forward it to = someone so
they can see it in it's original form.
The way outlook and outlook express "forward" feature works it is =
virtually useless to forward an email to tech support because all the =
important parts are either removed or modified. ISP techs and = postmasters
walk people thru this copying the raw email to a new email = procedure all the
time.
As an end user you probably wouldn't need it except if you were a =
geek but for support purposes it's quite common.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net...
Outlook is not limited to RFC822 format nor is this the =
native format. What you describe is RFC822 specific and assumes that = the
RFC822 format is the storage format.
Do you really view the headers and the encoded body parts as =
something you view for the same reasons?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net...
I like the outlook express view source feature better than =
that. It allows me to see the headers and the source of the message all = in
one window and I can get to that window without ever opening the = email.
Really wish I could do that in Outlook. (I'm running Outlook 2000 = but it
doesn't sound like the current version is much improved wrt this = feature)
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net...
The headers, all headers for both the message and all the =
MIME parts.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net...
does that show you just the headers or is it like OE view =
source where it shows the whole raw email all in one screen?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net...
Full headers, yes. In the options dialog.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eda613@w3.nls.net...
In the current version of Outlook, is there a way to =
view the source for an email without opening the email first like you = can do
in Outlook express?=20
Geo.
------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C4FF97.243DF000
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.1289" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You keep claiming the =
information is=20
hiden. It's not. It's just not in your face. It =
shouldn't=20
be. The examples you give are rare. Virtually all the time = you
have=20
no desire for the routing encoding garbage that means nothing to = virtually=20
everyone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Say you have a customer who is having =
some=20
problem getting emails from an email list or they keep getting the =
same email=20
over and over again or they got an email hours after it was sent and =
want to=20
know why or any of a dozen other reasons where you need to see =
information=20
that most email programs now hide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>interesting idea of saving the =
message, changing=20
the extension then attaching it to a new email, I may try that one =
although=20
that still may be a bit much to explain to some people.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net">news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> What kind of email =
issue? =20
The encoded body parts only matter to me when I suspect there is a =
problem=20
with the encoding in the sending app.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> OE forward is =
fine. Use=20
Forward As Attachment. Outlook will do this but you have to =
select two=20
or more messages, forward, then delete the extra. There may be =
a=20
simpler way but I know this one works. Still you still won't =
get what=20
you want from any email program because the RFCs have specific rules =
regarding an embedded RFC822 encoded message that may mandate =
re-encoding=20
parts of it. If I'm really concerned I have people save the =
message,=20
rename it with some non-message extension, then attach the renamed=20
file.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, pretty much any time you =
have an email=20
issue you need to solve, you have to be able to look at the raw =
message in=20
it's entirety or be able to cut/paste it into another email so you =
can=20
forward it to someone so they can see it in it's original=20
form.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The way outlook and outlook =
express "forward"=20
feature works it is virtually useless to forward an email to tech =
support=20
because all the important parts are either removed or modified. =
ISP techs=20
and postmasters walk people thru this copying the raw email to a =
new email=20
procedure all the time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As an end user you probably =
wouldn't need it=20
except if you were a geek but for support purposes it's quite=20
common.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Outlook is not =
limited to=20
RFC822 format nor is this the native format. What you =
describe is=20
RFC822 specific and assumes that the RFC822 format is the =
storage=20
format.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Do you really view =
the headers=20
and the encoded body parts as something you view for the same=20
reasons?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I like the outlook express =
view source=20
feature better than that. It allows me to see the headers and =
the=20
source of the message all in one window and I can get to that =
window=20
without ever opening the email. Really wish I could do that in =
Outlook. (I'm running Outlook 2000 but it doesn't sound like =
the=20
current version is much improved wrt this =
feature)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The headers, =
all headers=20
for both the message and all the MIME parts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net">news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>does that show you just =
the headers=20
or is it like OE view source where it shows the whole raw =
email=20
all in one screen?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net">news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Full =
headers,=20
yes. In the options dialog.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eda613@w3.nls.net">news:41eda613@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the current =
version of=20
Outlook, is there a way to view the source for an =
email=20
without opening the email first like you can do in =
Outlook=20
express? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
=
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>
------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C4FF97.243DF000--
--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
* Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)
|