Text 2114, 522 rader
Skriven 2005-01-22 09:17:26 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 2113 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Do we protect users from their own stupidity?
=========================================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In Outlook 2000 it's not in the headers, it's not viewable anywhere. Are = you
saying the current Outlook does show it to you by moving it from the = middle
of the body of the email to the headers?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f2138c@w3.nls.net...
In the headers just like I said long ago. Why are you complaining =
about something you obviously never used?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:41f1d532@w3.nls.net...
and that snippet of code I posted that marks the different sections =
of an email, where is that included?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f19326@w3.nls.net...
The headers are included with all the other headers. The PDF =
attachment is included among the attachments.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f19043@w3.nls.net...
Yes Outlook does hide information that you can see in the raw =
email. Suppose you send a text message with a pdf attachment and you = receive
it in outlook
Ok show me how to see this part
------=3D_013325721613207
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
name=3D"RS129067.PDF"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=3D"RS129067.PDF"
That's the chunk of the raw message I want to see. You open the =
message and it's text with an attachment, right clicking on the body = gives no
"view source" choice. Where can I view the raw base64 text that = was sent as
part of an email? Outlook converted it to an attachment but = there is no way
to see the raw information as it was when it passed thru = the spam filters.
From outlook can you even tell if it was BASE64 or some other =
encoding method that was used?
you can't see this boundry info for the text part either.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f13425@w3.nls.net...
You keep claiming the information is hiden. It's not. =
It's just not in your face. It shouldn't be. The examples you give are =
rare. Virtually all the time you have no desire for the routing = encoding
garbage that means nothing to virtually everyone.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net...
Say you have a customer who is having some problem getting =
emails from an email list or they keep getting the same email over and = over
again or they got an email hours after it was sent and want to know = why or
any of a dozen other reasons where you need to see information = that most
email programs now hide.
interesting idea of saving the message, changing the =
extension then attaching it to a new email, I may try that one although = that
still may be a bit much to explain to some people.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net...
What kind of email issue? The encoded body parts only =
matter to me when I suspect there is a problem with the encoding in the =
sending app.
OE forward is fine. Use Forward As Attachment. =
Outlook will do this but you have to select two or more messages, = forward,
then delete the extra. There may be a simpler way but I know = this one works.
Still you still won't get what you want from any email = program because the
RFCs have specific rules regarding an embedded = RFC822 encoded message that
may mandate re-encoding parts of it. If I'm = really concerned I have people
save the message, rename it with some = non-message extension, then attach the
renamed file.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net...
Yes, pretty much any time you have an email issue you =
need to solve, you have to be able to look at the raw message in it's =
entirety or be able to cut/paste it into another email so you can = forward it
to someone so they can see it in it's original form.
The way outlook and outlook express "forward" feature =
works it is virtually useless to forward an email to tech support = because all
the important parts are either removed or modified. ISP = techs and postmasters
walk people thru this copying the raw email to a = new email procedure all the
time.
As an end user you probably wouldn't need it except if =
you were a geek but for support purposes it's quite common.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net...
Outlook is not limited to RFC822 format nor is this =
the native format. What you describe is RFC822 specific and assumes = that the
RFC822 format is the storage format.
Do you really view the headers and the encoded body =
parts as something you view for the same reasons?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net...
I like the outlook express view source feature =
better than that. It allows me to see the headers and the source of the =
message all in one window and I can get to that window without ever = opening
the email. Really wish I could do that in Outlook. (I'm running = Outlook 2000
but it doesn't sound like the current version is much = improved wrt this
feature)
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net...
The headers, all headers for both the message =
and all the MIME parts.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net...
does that show you just the headers or is it =
like OE view source where it shows the whole raw email all in one = screen?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net...
Full headers, yes. In the options dialog.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eda613@w3.nls.net...
In the current version of Outlook, is there =
a way to view the source for an email without opening the email first = like
you can do in Outlook express?=20
Geo.
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In Outlook 2000 it's not in the =
headers, it's not=20
viewable anywhere. Are you saying the current Outlook does show it to = you
by=20
moving it from the middle of the body of the email to the =
headers?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f2138c@w3.nls.net">news:41f2138c@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> In the headers just like =
I said long=20
ago. Why are you complaining about something you obviously never =
used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f1d532@w3.nls.net">news:41f1d532@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and that snippet of code I posted =
that marks=20
the different sections of an email, where is that =
included?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f19326@w3.nls.net">news:41f19326@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The headers are =
included with=20
all the other headers. The PDF attachment is included among =
the=20
attachments.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f19043@w3.nls.net">news:41f19043@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes Outlook does hide =
information that=20
you can see in the raw email. Suppose you send a text message =
with a pdf=20
attachment and you receive it in outlook</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok show me how to see this=20
part</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>------=3D_013325721613207<BR>Content-Type:=20
=
application/octet-stream;<BR>name=3D"RS129067.PDF"<BR>Content-Transfer-En=
coding:=20
BASE64<BR>Content-Disposition:=20
attachment;<BR>filename=3D"RS129067.PDF"<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That's the chunk of the raw =
message I want=20
to see. You open the message and it's text with an attachment, =
right=20
clicking on the body gives no "view source" choice. Where can I =
view the=20
raw base64 text that was sent as part of an email? Outlook =
converted it=20
to an attachment but there is no way to see the raw information =
as it=20
was when it passed thru the spam filters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From outlook can you even tell =
if it was=20
BASE64 or some other encoding method that was used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you can't see this boundry info =
for the=20
text part either.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f13425@w3.nls.net">news:41f13425@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You keep =
claiming the=20
information is hiden. It's not. It's just not in =
your=20
face. It shouldn't be. The examples you give are=20
rare. Virtually all the time you have no desire for the =
routing=20
encoding garbage that means nothing to virtually=20
everyone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Say you have a customer who =
is having=20
some problem getting emails from an email list or they keep =
getting=20
the same email over and over again or they got an email =
hours after=20
it was sent and want to know why or any of a dozen other =
reasons=20
where you need to see information that most email programs =
now=20
hide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>interesting idea of saving =
the message,=20
changing the extension then attaching it to a new email, I =
may try=20
that one although that still may be a bit much to explain to =
some=20
people.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net">news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> What kind of =
email=20
issue? The encoded body parts only matter to me when =
I=20
suspect there is a problem with the encoding in the =
sending=20
app.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> OE forward =
is=20
fine. Use Forward As Attachment. Outlook will =
do this=20
but you have to select two or more messages, forward, then =
delete=20
the extra. There may be a simpler way but I know =
this one=20
works. Still you still won't get what you want from =
any=20
email program because the RFCs have specific rules =
regarding an=20
embedded RFC822 encoded message that may mandate =
re-encoding parts=20
of it. If I'm really concerned I have people save =
the=20
message, rename it with some non-message extension, then =
attach=20
the renamed file.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, pretty much any =
time you have=20
an email issue you need to solve, you have to be able to =
look at=20
the raw message in it's entirety or be able to cut/paste =
it into=20
another email so you can forward it to someone so they =
can see=20
it in it's original form.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The way outlook and =
outlook express=20
"forward" feature works it is virtually useless to =
forward an=20
email to tech support because all the important parts =
are either=20
removed or modified. ISP techs and postmasters walk =
people thru=20
this copying the raw email to a new email procedure all =
the=20
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As an end user you =
probably=20
wouldn't need it except if you were a geek but for =
support=20
purposes it's quite common.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Outlook =
is not=20
limited to RFC822 format nor is this the native =
format. =20
What you describe is RFC822 specific and assumes that =
the=20
RFC822 format is the storage format.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Do you =
really view=20
the headers and the encoded body parts as something =
you view=20
for the same reasons?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I like the outlook =
express view=20
source feature better than that. It allows me to see =
the=20
headers and the source of the message all in one =
window and=20
I can get to that window without ever opening the =
email.=20
Really wish I could do that in Outlook. (I'm running =
Outlook=20
2000 but it doesn't sound like the current version =
is much=20
improved wrt this feature)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The =
headers, all=20
headers for both the message and all the MIME=20
parts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net">news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>does that show =
you just the=20
headers or is it like OE view source where it =
shows the=20
whole raw email all in one screen?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net">news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
Full=20
headers, yes. In the options=20
dialog.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eda613@w3.nls.net">news:41eda613@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the =
current version=20
of Outlook, is there a way to view the =
source for an=20
email without opening the email first like =
you can=20
do in Outlook express? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
=
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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