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Text 2988, 191 rader
Skriven 2005-03-08 18:38:14 av John Oellrich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 2835 av Antti Kurenniemi (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: IDE market consolidates some more...?
=================================================
From: "John Oellrich" <john@oellrich.us>

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Antti,

No your opinions are your opinions, so they can't be wrong. And I = largely
agree with them.

For most of the computer users, residential or commercial, in general =
natively compiled code is the way to go. The vast majority of them are =
running Windows so cross platform support is a non-issue. And on the = whole
they need generic apps, not Enterprise custom apps.I wouldn't even = mind if
some Win developers reverted to assembler ;->

--=20
john

john@oellrich.us
  "Antti Kurenniemi" <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote in message =
news:4229e645$1@w3.nls.net...
  "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
  news:nccj21hj40m447p33bfg4rdsl29mdpjlvq@4ax.com...
  >>> The bottom line is that Java is faster than we need
  >>
  >>I don't agree with that.
  >
  > I am curious how you can not agree.
  >
  > 1) you do not know our needs

  I thought you used "we" as in me and you and generally people around =
here,=20
  but no of course I don't know your specific needs. In that sense I =
can't=20
  disagree of course.


  >>> and has advantages over "native apps".
  >>
  >>...for the developer, not for the user.
  >
  > Not necessarily.  The user wants the portability among OS's.

  Not this user.


  >>> For example, we write our Java apps on Windows developer
  >>> boxes, and run the apps on Windows, Solaris and Linux.
  >>
  >>...and on each of those platforms, a native compiled app would be =
snappier
  >>and thus better for the end user.
  >
  > How much "snappier"?  What are the results of your studies on this?

  Enough to notice, and the results are that I don't like neither Java =
nor=20
  .NET apps as they feel slower than native apps. Period. That's all =
there is=20
  to it, with the emphasis that it is only in *my opinion*, no studies =
or=20
  proper testing or anything like that.


  > Why a native compiled app?  If you think raw speed is better for the
  > user, use native assembly language.  That will be the fastest.

  I do think that raw speed is best, but only to an extent. I just don't =
like=20
  the extra layer that VM's add to the picture.


  > But more to the basic flaw in your logic,

  Bah humbug, there's no basic flaw because I'm not saying anything as a =
fact=20
  but as *my opinion*. I can have an opinion that black is white if I =
want to,=20
  no poin in getting all worked up about it. My opinions are mostly =
wrong=20
  anyway I think.


  Antti Kurenniemi


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<DIV>Antti,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>No your opinions are your opinions, so they can't be wrong. And I =
largely=20
agree with them.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>For most&nbsp;of the computer users, residential or commercial,=20
in&nbsp;general natively compiled code is the way to go. The vast = majority
of=20
them are running Windows so cross platform support is a non-issue. And = on
the=20
whole they need generic apps, not Enterprise custom apps.I wouldn't even = mind
if=20
some Win developers reverted to assembler ;-&gt;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>john</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:john@oellrich.us">john@oellrich.us</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Antti Kurenniemi" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:4229e645$1@w3.nls.net">news:4229e645$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>"Mike=20
  '/m'" &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
  message <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"news:nccj21hj40m447p33bfg4rdsl29mdpjlvq@4ax.com">news:nccj21hj40m=
447p33bfg4rdsl29mdpjlvq@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;=20
  The bottom line is that Java is faster than we =
need<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I=20
  don't agree with that.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am curious how you can not=20
  agree.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1) you do not know our needs<BR><BR>I thought =
you used=20
  "we" as in me and you and generally people around here, <BR>but no of =
course I=20
  don't know your specific needs. In that sense I can't <BR>disagree of=20
  course.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; and has advantages over "native=20
  apps".<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;...for the developer, not for the=20
  user.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not necessarily.&nbsp; The user wants the =
portability=20
  among OS's.<BR><BR>Not this user.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; For example, =
we=20
  write our Java apps on Windows developer<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; boxes, and =
run the=20
  apps on Windows, Solaris and Linux.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;...and on =
each of=20
  those platforms, a native compiled app would be =
snappier<BR>&gt;&gt;and thus=20
  better for the end user.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How much "snappier"?&nbsp; =
What are=20
  the results of your studies on this?<BR><BR>Enough to notice, and the =
results=20
  are that I don't like neither Java nor <BR>.NET apps as they feel =
slower than=20
  native apps. Period. That's all there is <BR>to it, with the emphasis =
that it=20
  is only in *my opinion*, no studies or <BR>proper testing or anything =
like=20
  that.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Why a native compiled app?&nbsp; If you think =
raw speed=20
  is better for the<BR>&gt; user, use native assembly language.&nbsp; =
That will=20
  be the fastest.<BR><BR>I do think that raw speed is best, but only to =
an=20
  extent. I just don't like <BR>the extra layer that VM's add to the=20
  picture.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; But more to the basic flaw in your =
logic,<BR><BR>Bah=20
  humbug, there's no basic flaw because I'm not saying anything as a =
fact=20
  <BR>but as *my opinion*. I can have an opinion that black is white if =
I want=20
  to, <BR>no poin in getting all worked up about it. My opinions are =
mostly=20
  wrong <BR>anyway I think.<BR><BR><BR>Antti=20
Kurenniemi<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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