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Text 4847, 339 rader
Skriven 2005-06-11 20:27:04 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 4846 av Randy (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: switching employers
===============================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   Only in mike miller's spin.

Rich

  "Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42aba72d@w3.nls.net...
  Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own choices-however, =
sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there may (or may not) = be an
organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, for example. = I don't see
that in reading this blog entry, however.=20

    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42ab9bef@w3.nls.net...
       People have been coming and going from everywhere I worked for as =
long as I have been working.  Unless you are spinning like mike miller I =
expect you would suggest that everyone is different and makes their own =
choices for their own reasons.  Maybe mike miller is projecting his own =
motivations onto others.

    Rich

      "Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net...
      In my corner of the world we routinely 'horse-traded' amongst =
several different business-specific IT organizations-with consolidation =
occuring in the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as =
surviving entities relocated the work out of the area. =20

      Yes, you did comment on where people went--but not WHY they left.=20


      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net...
           Interesting but a side topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts =
at spin, I commented on where people go.  I fully expect him to continue = to
make insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of = the
people about which he is making claims.

           As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away =
with only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted.  =
Google is close.  Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are
within walking distance.

        Rich

          "Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net...
          That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any =
work environment?

          While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, =
too-they don't=20
          feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they =
aren't being=20
          challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they =
don't like the=20
          direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play =
the corporate=20
          political game, they may have problems with their immediate =
manager; they=20
          may have issues totally unrelated to the work....

          What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software =
engineering is not=20
          the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
          real- threat of offshoring.

          All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), =
if I have a SE=20
          making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance =
and result out=20
          of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?

          There are now reports coming out of India where call-center =
personnel are=20
          leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
          business with companies that have outsourced to India.

          There are a lot of dynamics at play here.



          "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
          news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com...
          >
          > Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
          >
          > I agree though that they were looking for change.  The =
Microsoft people
          > who went to Google were looking for a change, from a =
stagnant company
          > whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing =
company that's
          > just beginning.
          >
          >  /m
          >
          >
          > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
          >
          >>   Interest in google is easy to explain.  For people =
looking for a change=20
          >> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few =
high tech=20
          >> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
          >> well as Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have =
gone to=20
          >> amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom =
many went to=20
          >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups isn't as=20
          >> popular.
          >>
          >>Rich
          >>
          >>  "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
          >> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com...
          >>
          >>
          >>  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of late,
          >>  and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent.  =
Well I guess
          >>  that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect =
to be paid by
          >>  the stock market.
          >>
          >>    /m
          >=20


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Only in mike miller's=20
spin.</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>Rich</DIV>
<DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Randy" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42aba72d@w3.nls.net">news:42aba72d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own=20
  choices-however, sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there =
may (or=20
  may not) be an organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, =
for=20
  example.&nbsp;I don't see that in reading this blog entry, however.=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42ab9bef@w3.nls.net">news:42ab9bef@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; People have been =
coming and going=20
    from everywhere I worked for as long as I have been working.&nbsp; =
Unless=20
    you are spinning like mike miller I expect you would&nbsp;suggest =
that=20
    everyone is different and makes their&nbsp;own choices for their own =

    reasons.&nbsp; Maybe mike miller is projecting his own motivations =
onto=20
    others.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Randy" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net">news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>In my corner of the world we routinely =
'horse-traded'=20
      amongst several different business-specific&nbsp;IT =
organizations-with=20
      consolidation occuring in the industry those opportunities became =
fewer=20
      and fewer as surviving entities relocated the work out of the =
area.&nbsp;=20
      </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yes, you did comment on where people went--but =

      not&nbsp;WHY they left. </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net">news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Interesting =
but&nbsp;a side=20
        topic.&nbsp; Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented =
on=20
        where people go.&nbsp; I fully expect him to continue to make=20
        insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of =
the=20
        people about which he is making claims.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for where to =
go, someone is=20
        more likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute =
than 1000=20
        miles away and being uprooted.&nbsp; Google is close.&nbsp; Some =
of my=20
        friends and I joke about it because they are within walking=20
        distance.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Randy" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net">news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>Th=
at=20
          could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
          environment?<BR><BR>While money may be a big part of it, there =
are=20
          other reasons, too-they don't <BR>feel their skills are being =
utilized=20
          to their fullest, they aren't being <BR>challenged, they feel =
they are=20
          not being listened to, they don't like the <BR>direction the =
company=20
          is being taken, they don't want to play the corporate =
<BR>political=20
          game, they may have problems with their immediate manager; =
they=20
          <BR>may have issues totally unrelated to the =
work....<BR><BR>What I=20
          think you are seeing is the fact that now software engineering =
is not=20
          <BR>the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to =
the=20
          perceived -or <BR>real- threat of offshoring.<BR><BR>All other =
things=20
          being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I have a SE =
<BR>making=20
          $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
          <BR>of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?<BR><BR>There are =
now=20
          reports coming out of India where call-center personnel are=20
          <BR>leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK =
customers=20
          transacting <BR>business with companies that have outsourced =
to=20
          India.<BR><BR>There are a lot of dynamics at play=20
          here.<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Mike '/m'" &lt;<A=20
          href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
          <BR><A=20
          =
href=3D"news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com">news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
          Soounds more like rationalization than =
explanation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I=20
          agree though that they were looking for change.&nbsp; The =
Microsoft=20
          people<BR>&gt; who went to Google were looking for a change, =
from a=20
          stagnant company<BR>&gt; whose best years have passed by; to a =

          vibrant, growing company that's<BR>&gt; just=20
          beginning.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; /m<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On =
Fri, 10=20
          Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" &lt;@&gt;=20
          wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Interest in google is =
easy to=20
          explain.&nbsp; For people looking for a change <BR>&gt;&gt; =
but do not=20
          want to uproot themselves and move there are few high tech=20
          <BR>&gt;&gt; businesses in the area particularly those that =
treat=20
          there employees as <BR>&gt;&gt; well as Microsoft does.&nbsp; =
In the=20
          past people have might have gone to <BR>&gt;&gt; amazon or =
real or=20
          other local outfits.&nbsp; During the boom many went to =
<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
          startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups isn't=20
          as <BR>&gt;&gt;=20
          =
popular.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Rich<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;=20
          "Mike '/m'" &lt;<A=20
          href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
          <BR>&gt;&gt; <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com">news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt=
;&nbsp;=20
          Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of=20
          late,<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; and Google becoming the destination =
for=20
          Microsoft talent.&nbsp; Well I guess<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; that =
happens=20
          when you've trained your workforce to expect to be paid=20
          by<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; the stock=20
          market.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /m<BR>&gt;=20
        =
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
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