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Text 5307, 386 rader
Skriven 2005-06-22 21:42:24 av Randy (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 5302 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Microsoft meets the hackers
=======================================
From: "Randy" <@>

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Pot, meet kettle.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42b9f5bf@w3.nls.net...
     You are pretty clear that you believe only what you want to =
believe.

  Rich

    "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:egnjb19bg13ail2588m87un2r08b9j7ke5@4ax.com...

    All I am asking is whether I can believe what that Microsoft =
security
    bulletin says. =20

     /m


    On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:20:32 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:

    >   You aren't saying much of anything except your typical =
propaganda.  What do you hope to gain by making claims regarding = something
about which you know something to someone who actually does = know something? 
Is this how you try to feel better about yourself?
    >
    >Rich
    >
    >  "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:081hb1hkkat3tf0s5fk5be6d09sbju0bf6@4ax.com...
    >
    >  Once again, I am not saying anything about what the reporter =
claimed.
    >
    >  The Microsoft security bulletin states, "There is an unchecked =
buffer".
    >  http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-059.mspx
    >
    >  Are you saying that the person who wrote that security bulletin
    >  published incorrect information about the security problem, and =
left it
    >  in place even after a revision of the bulletin?
    >
    >
    >   /m
    >
    >
    >
    >  On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:05:07 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
    >
    >  >   And this is what the reporter claimed.  Maybe you would not =
report what was reported to you.  We likely will never know.  All we = know
today is that you are willing to make all sorts of claims about = something you
know nothing about trying to refute the statements of = someone with very good
knowledge of the issue.  It's not like you will = be any less clueless by
repeating yourself over and over.  Is this how = you feel better about
yourself?
    >  >
    >  >Rich
    >  >
    >  >  "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:buveb1lm4bkds04ndd83g288f8ti81v4dc@4ax.com...
    >  >
    >  >  I am not talking about what the reporter wrote, I am talking =
about what
    >  >  the Microsoft security bulletin says in the Technical Details =
section.
    >  >
    >  >  =3D=3D=3D
    >  >  The first vulnerability is a buffer overrun vulnerability. =
There is an
    >  >  unchecked buffer in one of the components that handle NOTIFY =
directives
    >  >  - messages that advertise the availability of UPnP-capable =
devices on
    >  >  the network. By sending a specially malformed NOTIFY =
directive, it would
    >  >  be possible for an attacker to cause code to run in the =
context of the
    >  >  UPnP subsystem, which runs with System privileges on Windows =
XP. (On
    >  >  Windows 98 and Windows ME, all code executes as part of the =
operating
    >  >  system). This would enable the attacker to gain complete =
control over
    >  >  the system.
    >  >  =3D=3D=3D
    >  >
    >  >  "There is an unchecked buffer".   Man, that sounds rather =
specific to
    >  >  me.=20
    >  >
    >  >   /m
    >  >
    >  >
    >  >
    >  >
    >  >
    >  >  On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:44:07 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
    >  >
    >  >  >   That and of course that bulletins rarely if ever mention =
this level of detail.  Unchecked buffers are one of the few exceptions = and
that I already explained.  The reporter claimed he could overflow a = buffer
though did not, and has not since that I can see, given any = evidence of this.
 My speculation is that better err on the side of = caution.
    >  >  >
    >  >  >Rich
    >  >  >
    >  >  >  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42b77b11$1@w3.nls.net...
    >  >  >     Not odd.  I didn't analyze it until after I saw the =
public bulletin release and what the reporter claims in his PR was the =
scenario that generated overflows.  I don't believe the reporter = understands
what he saw or if he did he kept that out of his PR and = anything else I could
find, public or private, on the topic.  Unlike the = reporter, I don't issue
press releases or call reporters with what I = find even if it could be
embarrassing to him.  But then I don't have a = financial interest in putting
others at risk just to try to make myself = look good.
    >  >  >
    >  >  >  Rich
    >  >  >
    >  >  >    "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:15seb1pu019glla3ph9mnje9h2rogh4mnh@4ax.com...
    >  >  >    Oddly, I see no mention of a race condition in the =
official Microsoft
    >  >  >    security bulletin that was originally posted on December =
20, 2001 and=20
    >  >  >    updated on May 09, 2003
    >  >  >    =
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-059.mspx
    >  >  >
    >  >  >     /m
    >  >  >
    >  >  >
    >  >  >    On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:00:02 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
    >  >  >
    >  >  >    >   A race condition.
    >  >  >    >
    >  >  >    >Rich
    >  >  >    >
    >  >  >    >  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42b699ed$2@w3.nls.net...
    >  >  >    >  Well what was it then?
    >  >  >    >
    >  >  >    >  Geo.
    >  >  >    >    "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42b5feb2@w3.nls.net...
    >  >  >    >       It is not a buffer overflow.  It is not a buffer =
overrun.  Neither.
    >  >  >    >
    >  >  >    >    Rich

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Pot, meet kettle.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42b9f5bf@w3.nls.net">news:42b9f5bf@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You are pretty clear =
that you=20
  believe only what you want to believe.</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>
  <DIV><BR>Rich</DIV>
  <DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Mike '/m'" &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:egnjb19bg13ail2588m87un2r08b9j7ke5@4ax.com">news:egnjb19bg13=
ail2588m87un2r08b9j7ke5@4ax.com</A>...</DIV><BR>All=20
    I am asking is whether I can believe what that Microsoft=20
    security<BR>bulletin says.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp;/m<BR><BR><BR>On Tue, =
21 Jun=20
    2005 15:20:32 -0700, "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
You=20
    aren't saying much of anything except your typical propaganda.&nbsp; =
What do=20
    you hope to gain by making claims regarding something about which =
you know=20
    something to someone who actually does know something?&nbsp; Is this =
how you=20
    try to feel better about =
yourself?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rich<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    "Mike '/m'" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:081hb1hkkat3tf0s5fk5be6d09sbju0bf6@4ax.com">news:081hb1hkkat=
3tf0s5fk5be6d09sbju0bf6@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    Once again, I am not saying anything about what the reporter=20
    claimed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; The Microsoft security bulletin =
states,=20
    "There is an unchecked buffer".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-059.mspx"=
>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-059.mspx</A><BR>=
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    Are you saying that the person who wrote that security=20
    bulletin<BR>&gt;&nbsp; published incorrect information about the =
security=20
    problem, and left it<BR>&gt;&nbsp; in place even after a revision of =
the=20
    bulletin?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    /m<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 =
21:05:07 -0700,=20
    "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; And =
this is=20
    what the reporter claimed.&nbsp; Maybe you would not report what was =

    reported to you.&nbsp; We likely will never know.&nbsp; All we know =
today is=20
    that you are willing to make all sorts of claims about something you =
know=20
    nothing about trying to refute the statements of someone with very =
good=20
    knowledge of the issue.&nbsp; It's not like you will be any less =
clueless by=20
    repeating yourself over and over.&nbsp; Is this how you feel better =
about=20
    yourself?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Rich<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; "Mike '/m'" &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:buveb1lm4bkds04ndd83g288f8ti81v4dc@4ax.com">news:buveb1lm4bk=
ds04ndd83g288f8ti81v4dc@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; I am not talking about what the =
reporter=20
    wrote, I am talking about what<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; the =
Microsoft=20
    security bulletin says in the Technical Details =
section.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; =3D=3D=3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; The =
first=20
    vulnerability is a buffer overrun vulnerability. There is =
an<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; unchecked buffer in one of the components that handle =
NOTIFY=20
    directives<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; - messages that advertise the=20
    availability of UPnP-capable devices on<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; the =

    network. By sending a specially malformed NOTIFY directive, it=20
    would<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; be possible for an attacker to cause =
code to=20
    run in the context of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; UPnP subsystem, =
which=20
    runs with System privileges on Windows XP. (On<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    Windows 98 and Windows ME, all code executes as part of the=20
    operating<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; system). This would enable the =
attacker=20
    to gain complete control over<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; the=20
    system.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; =3D=3D=3D<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; "There is an unchecked buffer".&nbsp;&nbsp; Man, that =
sounds=20
    rather specific to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; me. <BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; /m<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:44:07 -0700, "Rich" &lt;@&gt;=20
    wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
That and=20
    of course that bulletins rarely if ever mention this level of =
detail.&nbsp;=20
    Unchecked buffers are one of the few exceptions and that I already=20
    explained.&nbsp; The reporter claimed he could overflow a buffer =
though did=20
    not, and has not since that I can see, given any evidence of =
this.&nbsp; My=20
    speculation is that better err on the side of caution.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =

    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;Rich<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in =
message=20
    <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42b77b11$1@w3.nls.net">news:42b77b11$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Not odd.&nbsp; I didn't =
analyze it=20
    until after I saw the public bulletin release and what the reporter =
claims=20
    in his PR was the scenario that generated overflows.&nbsp; I don't =
believe=20
    the reporter understands what he saw or if he did he kept that out =
of his PR=20
    and anything else I could find, public or private, on the =
topic.&nbsp;=20
    Unlike the reporter, I don't issue press releases or call reporters =
with=20
    what I find even if it could be embarrassing to him.&nbsp; But then =
I don't=20
    have a financial interest in putting others at risk just to try to =
make=20
    myself look good.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; Rich<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Mike '/m'" &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:15seb1pu019glla3ph9mnje9h2rogh4mnh@4ax.com">news:15seb1pu019=
glla3ph9mnje9h2rogh4mnh@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Oddly, I see no mention of a race=20
    condition in the official Microsoft<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; security bulletin that was originally posted =
on=20
    December 20, 2001 and <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    updated on May 09, 2003<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-059.mspx"=
>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-059.mspx</A><BR>=
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    /m<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:00:02 =
-0700, "Rich"=20
    &lt;@&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; A race =
condition.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Rich<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; "Geo" &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42b699ed$2@w3.nls.net">news:42b699ed$2@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; Well what was it=20
    then?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; Geo.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote =
in=20
    message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42b5feb2@w3.nls.net">news:42b5feb2@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&gt;=
&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    It is not a buffer overflow.&nbsp; It is not a buffer overrun.&nbsp; =

    Neither.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
    &gt;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Rich<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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