Text 5446, 387 rader
Skriven 2005-06-27 06:12:04 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 5432 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
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Do you believe all the people or at least most of the people getting = infected
in this manner today have disabled the new safety features = designed to
protect them? Somehow I don't think you of all people would = think that. So if
not, then how are they getting infected?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net...
Yes it does speak volumes about the real world. Most people do not =
think like you are care about the thinks you care about regardless of = whether
or not you think they should. Unfortunately, many are easily = tricked into
taking actions against their own interest. That is what is = described in the
lead in to the article that triggered this thread.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42bef565@w3.nls.net...
No I'm not giving up, just admitting that the latest versions don't =
suffer from the same UI flaws of previous versions. But the fact that so = many
people are still being fooled by this crap speaks volumes about the = real
world.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net...
Now you give up on making false claims about safe and unsafe =
attachments. Are you incapable of admiting you are wrong?
Are you trying to suggest that someone that downloads a ZIP =
file, opens that file, opens something from that file, and then still = ignores
the warning about it being unsafe should blame any unwanted = consequences on
whom, you? How often do you infect yourself this way?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net...
not if it's in a zip file.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net...
To try to fool the few people like you that ignore all the =
other signs. When OE is configured to allow unsafe file types it = displays
the .scr extension even for the long path. It also displays = the appropriate
icon which for the example you give is an application = icon not a JPEG icon.
Outlook and OE still block it or warn about it = depending on settings. =20
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net...
You don't believe the current UI with the way it displays an =
icon has had an effect?
Why then do email virus use such long attachment names?
Sheep.jpg =
.scr
explain that.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net...
The icons reflect the icons elsewhere in the UI. I =
believe this makes sense and do not believe that this UI consistency = makes
users more likely to make bad choices.
File extensions being hidden or not, and they are not =
on file attachments, is not the issue. I realize that this is a topic = you
like to whine about because you believe that your preference is = right for
everyone. Do you really believe the the clueless that ignore = warnings would
pay attention to this? This is all moot given that = unsafe email attachments
are blocked and the article was describing = people downloading from the web
not opening an attachment.
As for your claim to show a difference, this happens in =
a very obvious way. Users are warned about dangerous files and not = warned
about safe ones. The problem is that many ignore the warnings. = This is the
topic discussed in the email to which you replied and one = which you
completely ignored in your reply.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net...
The answer is very simple, instead of hiding dangerous =
attachments, show the users that these are somehow different from other =
attachments, something as simple as changing the icon to a skull and =
crossbones. To make it so that profession users can't open an attachment =
without an exchange server is just plain rude.
The problem is MS has spent recent history trying to =
hide file extensions from the users, so now we have a bunch of clueless = users
when it comes to telling which file types are safe and which are = not.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42be015f@w3.nls.net...
I don't see an easy answer. The issue is not that =
users are warned when there is no reason too, it's that they got lucky. = A
better analogy than a combination lock is Russian roulette. It's = always
dangerous which is why there is a warning. What would you do?
On a related note, how do you make a user that just =
wants things to "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if he = makes
another choice to care about such choices? You can remove the = choice which
is the position taken with Outlook and dangerous = attachments. There were
plenty that complained including folks here = when that happened.
Rich
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you believe all the people or at =
least most of=20
the people getting infected in this manner today have disabled the new =
safety=20
features designed to protect them? Somehow I don't think you of all = people
would=20
think that. So if not, then how are they getting infected?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net">news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Yes it does speak =
volumes about the=20
real world. Most people do not think like you are care about the =
thinks=20
you care about regardless of whether or not you think they =
should. =20
Unfortunately, many are easily tricked into taking actions against =
their own=20
interest. That is what is described in the lead in to the =
article that=20
triggered this thread.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef565@w3.nls.net">news:42bef565@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No I'm not giving up, just =
admitting that the=20
latest versions don't suffer from the same UI flaws of previous =
versions.=20
But the fact that so many people are still being fooled by this crap =
speaks=20
volumes about the real world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net">news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Now you give up on =
making false=20
claims about safe and unsafe attachments. Are you incapable =
of=20
admiting you are wrong?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Are you trying to =
suggest that=20
someone that downloads a ZIP file, opens that file, opens =
something from=20
that file, and then still ignores the warning about it being =
unsafe should=20
blame any unwanted consequences on whom, you? How often do =
you=20
infect yourself this way?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net">news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not if it's in a zip =
file.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net">news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> To try to fool =
the few=20
people like you that ignore all the other signs. When OE =
is=20
configured to allow unsafe file types it displays=20
the .scr extension even for the long path. It =
also=20
displays the appropriate icon which for the example you give =
is an=20
application icon not a JPEG icon. Outlook and OE still =
block it=20
or warn about it depending on settings. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You don't believe the =
current UI with=20
the way it displays an icon has had an effect?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why then do email virus use =
such long=20
attachment names?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Sheep.jpg &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; =20
.scr</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>explain that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net">news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The icons =
reflect the=20
icons elsewhere in the UI. I believe this makes =
sense and do=20
not believe that this UI consistency makes users more =
likely to=20
make bad choices.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> File =
extensions being=20
hidden or not, and they are not on file attachments, is =
not the=20
issue. I realize that this is a topic you like to =
whine=20
about because you believe that your preference is right =
for=20
everyone. Do you really believe the the clueless =
that ignore=20
warnings would pay attention to this? This is all =
moot given=20
that unsafe email attachments are blocked and the article =
was=20
describing people downloading from the web not opening an=20
attachment.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> As for your =
claim to=20
show a difference, this happens in a very obvious =
way. Users=20
are warned about dangerous files and not warned about safe =
ones. The problem is that many ignore the =
warnings. =20
This is the topic discussed in the email to which you =
replied and=20
one which you completely ignored in your =
reply.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net">news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The answer is very =
simple, instead=20
of hiding dangerous attachments, show the users that =
these are=20
somehow different from other attachments, something as =
simple as=20
changing the icon to a skull and crossbones. To make it =
so that=20
profession users can't open an attachment without an =
exchange=20
server is just plain rude.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem is MS has =
spent recent=20
history trying to hide file extensions from the =
users, so=20
now we have a bunch of clueless users when it comes to =
telling=20
which file types are safe and which are =
not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I don't =
see an easy=20
answer. The issue is not that users =
are warned=20
when there is no reason too, it's that they got=20
lucky. A better analogy than a combination lock =
is=20
Russian roulette. It's always dangerous which is =
why=20
there is a warning. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>What=20
would you do?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> On a =
related note,=20
how do you make a user that just wants things to =
"work" and=20
clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if he makes =
another choice=20
to care about such choices? You can remove the =
choice=20
which is the position taken with Outlook and dangerous =
attachments. There were plenty that complained =
including=20
folks here when that happened.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
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