Text 13605, 114 rader
Skriven 2005-06-14 07:35:24 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
  Kommentar till text 13595 av Gary Braswell (1:123/789.0)
Ärende: Hatred
==============
13 Jun 05 22:56, Gary Braswell wrote to Ed Hulett:

 Ed Hulett ->> Gary Braswell wrote:

 EH>>>> When Vern says Ho was not a man we could back, I'd believe him. 
 EH>>>> What evidence do you have that we could have backed Ho?

 GB>>> His working with us during WWII against the Chinese, his 
 GB>>> approaching Claire Chenault who time and again tried to get the US 
 GB>>> to back Ho against the French trying to re-establish their 
 GB>>> colonial empire. His desire to emulate the US at that time and 
 GB>>> establish a democracy.

 EH>> We didn't fight the Chinese in WWII. They were our ally. We helped 
 EH>> the Chinese against Japan. Remember the Flying Tigers?

 GB> You are correct, I meant Japanese.


 EH>> France was our ally as well, before AND after WWII. He might have 
 EH>> put on airs that his intent was to establish a democracy, but his 
 EH>> actions were those of a tyrrant.

 GB> Later, yes.

Not later, right from the gitgo.  Ho was one of many minor warlords who had
lead bands of freedom fighters against the Japanese during the war.  He was one
of the few of those who survived the war.  He was never anything more than a
thug with an education, which I believe was provided by the French if I
remember correctly.

 GB>>> We backed Saddam, Ed, is he any more cuddly than Ho?

 EH>> We did NOT back Saddam. We gave him intelligence only.

 GB> We backed him in a war against Iran, we also gave him money.

As you've been told before, we gave Iraq intel, and played Iraq off against
Iran.  But we didn't give them weapons, OR money, and we didn't back Saddam. 
He just happened to be the guy running Iraq at the time.  He was the bus driver
so to speak.


 GB>>> Ho started to allow/authorize his own people to be murdered in 
 GB>>> "the cause", among a great many other evils.

 EH>> Ho didn't have "his own people." He was a tyrrant and a dictator. 
 EH>> He lead by fear of death.

 GB> Ho was Vietnamese, you can't change that.

He was North Vietnamese at best, and there is even some controversy about that.

 GB>>> But at one time, early on, it was different. Ho, at the time he 
 GB>>> was dealing with Claire Chenault, fully expected the US to back a
 EH>> democracy movement.

 EH>> So, you are saying that since we turned him down he became a 
 EH>> commie over night? ROFL!

 GB> I give up Ed.

 GB> Ho was a French communist since the 20s.

 GB> He did not become a commie over night. He did go to the communists 
 GB> for help after we turned him down.

Ho was a communist since the days of the revolution in Russia in 1917.  He was
one of the first non-Russians to receive political training under Lenin and
Stalin.  He was a full blown dedicated commie long before WWII came along. 
I've seen newsreel footage of him shaking hands, in Moscow, with the leaders of
the communists. 


 GB>>> Then the Cold War set in.

 EH>> Which had nothing to do with our decision to not back Ho.

 GB> Better check again. Backing France in Vietnam was their price for 
 GB> NATO.


 GB>>> Things changed for everyone.

 EH>> Uh huh. You can delude yourself that Ho was a pro-democracy 
 EH>> "George Washington" of Vietnam, but it isn't based on the truth.

 GB> I am not deluding myself on anything.

You seem to have forgotten that when Vietnam was split, by treaty, that several
hundred thousand Catholics who ended up in North Vietnam fled to the south,
while only about a tenth of that number went the other way.  That fact alone
should tell you what kind of regime Ho ran.  There was never ANY chance we
would have backed Ho, even if DeGaulle and NATO hadn't been involved.


 GB> Those words above are yours, and have nothing whatsoever to do 
 GB> with my point or what I have been saying.

 GB> You have been trying to put the words of leftist re-writers of 
 GB> history into my mouth since the start. I have never characterized 
 GB> Ho as an "Uncle", nor a George Washington figure. He does not 
 GB> resemble either.

Those are the nicknames many of us gave him during the Vietnam War.  They are
derogatory in intent.

John 

America:  First, Last, and Always!
LIBERALS AND DOGS KEEP OFF THE GRASS!

--- Msged/386 TE 05
 * Origin: We are the Watchmen of our own Liberty! (1:379/1.99)