Text 13863, 81 rader
Skriven 2005-07-01 23:23:08 av Ed Connell (1:379/1.6)
     Kommentar till en text av Alan Hess
Ärende: Re: Durbin
==================
Hey, Alan.

 AH>>> He's a politician.  We saw over the top rhetoric by conservative
 AH>>> politicians during the Schiavo issue.  It's what politicians do
 AH>>> when they're trying to get their diatribe on the news and in the
 AH>>> paper - overreach for emphasis.

 EC>> But as the number two Democrat in the Senate, Durbin was still
 EC>> obligated to consider the effect of his words on our nation and
 EC>> the men and women who protect us.  This he clearly did not do.
 EC>> The support he got from other Democrats, after the fact, was
 EC>> particularly shameful as well as Durbin's (non-)appology.

 AH> You're right on that count.  He also should have considered how his
 AH> words could be spun, and should have known that using the examples that
 AH> he did were guaranteed to be grabbed by the spinmeisters.  I can defend
 AH> the point he was trying to make, but not the rhetoric he used to try
 AH> and make it.  Plain stupid, he was.

My hat is off to you for that. <g>

 AH>>> off by saying our actions aren't as bad as so-and-so's, so
 AH>>> they're okay.  Sure, the tortures in our prisons haven't been as
 AH>>> bad as tortures in Saddam's prisons, but they're still tortures,
 AH>>> and we simply aren't supposed to be torturing people (or sending
 AH>>> them out to be tortured elsewhere), however bad they may be.
 AH>>> America is supposed to have standards, and torture of any kind
 AH>>> doesn't fit them.

 EC>> I've been thinking about this.  In the end, torture has become a
 EC>> dumbed-down word.  It is now torture to subject someone to loud
 EC>> rap music.  We clearly had a different standard when Clinton's
 EC>> people were facing the Branch Davidians in Waco.  Even little
 EC>> children were so tortured.  I just can't remember what the
 EC>> liberal Democrats were saying about that.

 AH> I'm not talking about the rap music (though it is torture listening to
 AH> that garbage for any length of time <grin>.)  I'm talking about the
 AH> types of things that happened in Abu Ghraib, and things like the report
 AH> in the e-mail to Durbin about handcuffing someone in a fetal position
 AH> for 18-24 hours.  Those things go beyond regular interrogation.

I don't know.  I might allow a modicum of discomfort for those guys who were 
looking to kill Americans - not in the sense of trying to bring about 
surrender, but killing Americans for its own sake.  Two right thinking 
persons might disagree about where to draw the line.  And it is a line to be 
drawn.  Sakowski's view that there is not a spectrum where one end is 
acceptable and the other is not is just plain nonsense.  Keeping someone 
locked up is on one end of that spectrum and causing excruciating pain is at 
the other.  We might disagree exactly where the line is while agreeing in 
principle.  Of course a disobediance of orders is automatically over the 
line.

 EC>> When the Gonzalez kid was "captured" in Florida, the NBC
 EC>> cameraman who was acting as pool coverage for the other media too
 EC>> was incapacitated by being struck in the stomach with the butt of
 EC>> a weapon by one of the goons.  This despite many comments by the
 EC>> grandparents that the INS could have the kid if they were to drop
 EC>> by some time.  Head goon, Janet Reno, had the gall to crow that
 EC>> it was much better to have TV coverage of the whole incident.  I
 EC>> thought we were better than that.  (sorry, my fingers just got
 EC>> away from me <g>)

 AH> You're right that we should be better than that.

Again - a tip of the hat.

 AH>>> BTW, where's Vern been?  Haven't seen any posts from him lately.
 AH>>>  Is he alright, do you know?  *adh*

 EC>> I too have been wondering.  He's prone to long hunting trips and
 EC>> other excursions, so who knows.  I assume he is okay, and
 EC>> certainly hope so too.

 AH> Maybe he's bagging some game for a July Fourth dinner.  :-)  *adh*

Hey, that's probably it.  Let's see if he invites us. <g>


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