Text 21387, 107 rader
Skriven 2006-07-28 18:30:19 av John Hull (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 21386 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
Ärende: Liberalism
==================
LEE LOFASO -> JOHN HULL wrote:
 LL> Yo John!

 >>> You're right -- but  that's what the Democrats have become these days.
 >>> Absent Joe Lieberman, who do they have of any stature and character?

 BB>>> Where are the socialdemocrats in USA? The politicans in Republican
 >> Part
 BB>>> and Democrats Party are just 10% of all American, the American upper
 BB>>> class. While 80-90% vote for them and let them do their job.

 BB>>> But 2 parties, not so many as 8 parties in Norway? Is it only
 BB>>> black and white in USA?

 JH>> Incorrect.  We are a representative Republic, not a parlimentary
 LL> democracy l
 JH>> England.

 LL> I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself
 LL> in public.  We have a federalist system with a republican form of
 LL> government.  The Declaration of Independence (written in 1776) is
 LL> not the U.S. Constitution (written in 1787).  Furthermore, there
 LL> is nothing in either the Declaration of Independence or the U.S.
 LL> Constitution pertaining to political parties.  Nor is there any
 LL> mention of a "two party system".

 JH>> Our legislature was designed from the beginning to be bicameral, or
 JH>> two houses, and the prevailing political party system at that time
 LL> (1776)
 JH>> was the two party system as used in England - the Tories and the
 JH>> Whigs.

 LL> Does your train of thought have a caboose?  The Declaration of
 LL> Independence is not the U.S. Constitution.  There is no mention
 LL> of any kind of political party system in either document.  Our
 LL> first president, George Washington, belonged to no party, even
 LL> though in his second term he declared himself a Federalist.

 JH>> After the War of Independence, that type of system continued, and the
 JH>> parties eventual became Democrats and Republicans.

 LL> Please do yourself a favor, and stop showing your own ignorance.
 LL> There is no mention of political parties in our Constitution. And that
 LL> Constitution was not written until 1787, and did not take effect until
 LL> 1788, which our government commenced operating under in 1789.

 JH>> We have always had splinter parties, however, or 3rd parties if you
 LL> prefer.
 JH>> With the exception of the Libertarian Party, they have never amounted
 LL> to a
 JH>> dime's worth of spit, and with one or two exceptions, have never had
 LL> much
 JH>> influence directly on the political process.

 LL> Again, you show your own ignorance.

 LL> The U.S. Constitution established an electoral college, which is the
 LL> most modern form of democracy in existence today.  The last third party
 LL> candidate to win electoral votes was George C. Wallace, in 1968.  And
 LL> he came close - very close - to sending the election to the House of
 LL> Representatives.  And had that happened, Wallace's influence would
 LL> have been *huge*.

 JH>> Despite all the bile and partisan sniping, we would not stand still
 LL> for the
 JH>> sort of coalition government you are talking about.  I firmly believe
 LL> that p
 JH>> of what enabled us to become the strongest nation in history
 LL> militarily and
 JH>> economically, is that we avoided the sinkhole of parlimentary
 LL> government.

 LL> The U.S. Constitution does not preclude a coalition government.  In
 LL> fact, it was written with the possibility of a coalition government
 LL> in mind.  A coalition government would be different, even radically
 LL> different, than what we are used to.  But Americans would accept it,
 LL> for it would be the will of the people.

 JH>> It is extremely hard to get a handle on how things work here - to
 LL> understand
 JH>> the subtleties and nuances of things going on behind the scenes -
 LL> without
 JH>> having been born and raised here (or at least a decades-long resident).

 LL> Arnold Schwarzenegger certainly seems to have a good grasp of things.
 LL> But then, he is known as the Gropernator.  :)

 JH>> Despite all that, its hard to be too critical when we are the only
 JH>> representative government in history that can say we have peaceful
 LL> transitio
 JH>> of power every four years for our entire existence.  We must be doing
 LL> someth
 JH>> right to be able to do that.

 LL> Most democracies have peaceful transitions of power.  And some
 LL> democracies, such as Mexico, have fairer presidential elections
 LL> than here.

As usual, you illustrate your ignorance of history.  If you notice, I wasn't
being terribly specific, choosing instead to give a general overview.

But, if you think Mexican elections are more fair than ours, that says it all. 
The Mexicans have made a fine art of election fraud, voter fraud, and general
political corruption.  They make us look like beginners.

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