Text 24420, 96 rader
Skriven 2006-11-03 17:32:13 av John Hull (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 24409 av Gary Braswell (1:123/789.0)
Ärende: Election
================
Gary Braswell -> VERN HUMPHREY wrote:
 GB> VERN HUMPHREY -> GARY BRASWELL wrote:
 GB>>>>> Not all of France surrendered.

 VH>>>> You have mistakenly confounded "surrender" with "occupation."

 VH>>>> All of France surrendered.  The Germans allowed a rump France with
 VH>>>> the capital at Vichy to continue to exist for a while.  The
 VH>> Vichy Frenc
 VH>>>> were technically allies of the Germans and actually fought
 VH>> against us i
 VH>>>> North Africa -- of course, being French, it wasn't much of a fight.

 GB>>> You are thinking I was talking about the Vichy.

 GB>>> I am not.

 GB>>> De Gaulle did not surrender and neither did the Free French. They had
 VH>> a deat
 GB>>> sentence on their heads from Vichy. And while small at first, they
 VH>> did grow.

 VH>> And at the time of the North African invasion, De Gaulle was NOT the
 VH>> leader of any siginificant French movement.

 GB> I said they were small.


 VH>> The government of France had surrendered.  Period.

 GB> The government had.


 VH>> French troops and naval vessels fought (inas much as the French ever
 VH>> fight) on the Nazi side.   French police rounded up Jews for the
 GB> Nazis.

 GB> True.


 GB>>> And when the interview between Petain' and Hitler at Montoire came
 GB> out,
 GB>>> followed by a Vichy announcement of collaboration, the French people
 VH>> began t
 GB>>> fight back and the Free French really grew.

 VH>> Right -- from one to two. :-)

 GB> No, it was a massive shift.


 GB>>> And from above I see you don't have much appreciation for French
 VH>> fighting
 GB>>> ability.

 GB>>> Its popular to down the French.

 GB>>> To be honest, I have not held a high opinion of them myself in many
 VH>> areas. I
 GB>>> agreed with a history prof. who said the only reason for the
 VH>> existence of
 GB>>> Germans is to storm across the Rhine every 50 or 60 years and perform
 VH>> the
 GB>>> public service of killing hundreds of thousands of French.

 GB>>> De Gaulle's 4th Armored fought to within a mile of Guderian's HQ. The
 VH>> only
 GB>>> thing that stopped De Gaulle was Stuka's. The French Air Force was
 VH>> gone and
 GB>>> Brits either could not or would not(still a controversy about that
 VH>> today)
 GB>>> provide him with air support.

 VH>> Let me point out that at least one American General who had French
 GB> units
 VH>> under his command had a very low opinion of them. :-)

 GB> Well, Guderian had a high opinion of the 4th and De Gaulle.

 GB> When the Germans re-militarized the Rhineland, De Gaulle wanted to
 GB> attack them with "...brutality and speed."

 GB> He also tried to get legislation passed for creation of 7 armored
 GB> divisions. France, like the rest of Western Europe did not understand
 GB> the role armor was to play in the exploitation of breakthroughs. They
 GB> wanted a defensive force built around the Maginot. I would guess you
 GB> know its known as "The Idiot's Plan" today.

 GB> De Gaulle did not get the armored divisions.


For every hard ass Frenchman that was a fighter there were another 50 candy
asses backing him up.  That's why DeGaulle didn't get what he needed.

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