Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4785
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1117
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   2798
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13065
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2055
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4277
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   28516
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2019
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6000
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33806
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   23541
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12847
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4193
FN_SYSOP   41525
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13586
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16053
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22012
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   900
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
Möte POLITICS, 29554 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 3181, 153 rader
Skriven 2004-10-09 15:33:58 av Alan Hess
Ärende: true and false from debate
==================================
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/printedition/bal-te.truth09oct09,0,4302682.st
ory?coll=bal-pe-asection
In volley of facts and figures, not all fly
Truth: From taxes to facts about Iraq, both candidates inflated figures and
twisted information to fit their message.


By Mark Matthews and Laura Sullivan
Sun National Staff

October 9, 2004

WASHINGTON - President Bush and Sen. John Kerry both tossed out facts and
numbers like confetti in last night's town hall-style debate - some true, some
misleading. But the most intriguing moments involved the arguments they could
have put forward but didn't.

Kerry, for instance, allowed to stand Bush's denial of his involvement in a
timber company. Bush, for his part, could have rebutted Kerry's criticism that
the United States had failed to press for agreement with other countries in
NATO to train Iraqi security forces.

While talking about creating jobs, Bush charged that Kerry "says he's only
going to tax the rich. Do you realize, 900,000 small businesses will be taxed
under his plan?"

Bush's charge is misleading. The "small businesses" Bush says will be taxed
include hundreds of thousands of wealthy individuals who are claiming to be
"small businesses" even though they may have earned as little as $1 in
individual income, independent tax analysts have said. Such "small businesses"
typically do not create any jobs.

Even if the 900,000 small businesses were in fact businesses, Bush does not
mention that under Kerry's plan the country's 32 million other small businesses
would not receive any tax increase.

The discussion of this issue, though, brought about one of the most visibly
contradictory moments of the night. Kerry said Bush is an example of a wealthy
individual who could claim to be a "small business" for tax purposes, saying
"The president got $84 from a timber company that [he] owns, and he's counted
as a small business."

Bush quickly responded, "I own a timber company? That's news to me. Need some
wood?"

In fact, Kerry was mostly right. On his 2001 tax return, Bush called himself
"part owner" of a timber company, saying he received $84 income from the
company.

Pressing his point that Bush alienated longtime U.S. allies both before and
after the war in Iraq, Kerry said, "Two weeks ago, there was a meeting of the
North Atlantic Council, which is the political arm of NATO. They discussed the
possibility of a small training unit or having a total takeover of the training
in Iraq. Did our administration push for the total training of Iraq? No. Were
they silent? Yes. Was there an effort to bring all the allies together around
that? No."

Bush replied by repeating previous criticism of Kerry's proposal to hold an
international summit on Iraq, which the president predicted would fail because
the Massachusetts Democrat considers the war a mistake.

He neglected to mention that the NATO alliance has been moving toward unity on
sending a training mission to Iraq. In June, it agreed in principle to the
mission. Yesterday, the North Atlantic Council adopted a concept for the
operation that it said was aimed at "substantially enhancing NATO's assistance
to the Iraqi interim government." The number of NATO troops to be sent has not
been decided.

On the issue of homeland security, Bush erred when he said his administration
"tripled the homeland security budget from $10 billion to $30 billion."
According to the Congressional Budget Office, the cost of homeland security
functions in fiscal 2001 was $17 billion with another emergency $4 billion in
funding tacked on after the Sept. 11 attacks. The budget office says the
funding has actually only about doubled to $41 billion since then.

Kerry, though, went too far when he said, "95 percent of our containers coming
into this country are not inspected today. When you get on an airplane, your
bag is X- rayed, but the cargo hold isn't X-rayed."

It's true 95 percent of shipping containers are not hand searched, but that is
largely because they have been cleared by port security before they reached
U.S. ports. Under several new initiatives, all shipping manifests are examined
before ships arrive. Officials say 100 percent of containers deemed "high
risk," such as those coming from suspect countries or of unknown origin, are
hand searched.

Similarly, while most cargo aboard aircraft is not searched, as Kerry said, the
Transportation Security Agency established a database of vetted shippers, which
is used in a risk-weighted screening system. Most cargo is cleared before it
arrives at the airport. Much like the port system, any cargo thought to be
suspicious is either screened or not allowed onto the plane.

As in their previous debates, Bush and Kerry also used sometimes misleading
information.

The two candidates' debate over jobs gained added urgency from the government's
release of new statistics yesterday showing that 96,000 jobs had been created
last month, a figure lower than many economists had anticipated.

Both reiterated past positions that fail to give the whole picture.

The economy has lost 2.7 million manufacturing jobs since bush took office,
according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. But it has added close to 1.8
million, for a net loss of 900,000. Manufacturing job losses repeatedly cited
by Kerry had begun under former President Bill Clinton well before Bush came
into office.

Discussing Iraq, Bush claimed in his final statement that the lengthy report
issued this week by chief U.S. weapons inspector Charles A. Duelfer "confirmed"
his decision to topple Saddam Hussein.

The report did not provide any opinion on the wisdom of the U.S. invasion,
although Duelfer did conclude that Hussein intended to rebuild his weapons
arsenal once international sanctions had been lifted.

Kerry asserted at one point during the debate that sanctions had worked in
causing Hussein to destroy his weapons stockpile. But Duelfer pointed out that
the sanctions were eroding badly by the late 1990s.

Kerry said that the former Army chief of staff, Gen. Eric Shinseki, was
"retired" by the Bush administration for saying shortly before the war started
in March, 2003 that "several hundred thousand" troops would be needed for
post-war stability operations. Shinseki's estimate was slammed by Deputy
Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz as being "wildly off the mark." But Shinseki
was not retired early and served out the remainder of his four-year term.

Long before Shinseki's estimate of post-war troop needs in Iraq, the general
had several brushes with his Pentagon bosses over weapons systems and the
proper size of the Army. In fact, the Pentagon leaked the name of Shinseki's
likely replacement, the Army's vice chief of staff, Gen. John Keane, in April
2002, a year before Shinseki's term ended in June, 2003, a move widely seen as
an attempt to undercut Shinseki. Keane eventually did not take the job, which
went to Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker.

The Democratic candidate has repeatedly raised the issue of Shinseki's pre-war
troop estimate because of the stubborn insurgency in Iraq. Kerry and many
others are asking whether additional forces early on could have prevented
Iraq's present turmoil. The number of U.S. troops has never exceeded 150,000 in
the country, while Great Britain provided the bulk of the additional 22,000
non-American forces.

Some members of Congress, most notably Sen. John McCain, a Republican from
Arizona, continue to say that more U.S. troops are needed, while the Bush
administration argues that it is Iraqis who must step forward to provide for
their own security.

Staff writers Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Tom Bowman contributed to this
article.

Copyright + 2004, The Baltimore Sun

--- Msged/2 6.0.1
 * Origin: tncbbs.no-ip.com - Home of the POL_DISORDER echo. (1:261/1000)