Text 3316, 269 rader
Skriven 2004-10-12 21:32:19 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
Kommentar till en text av Howie Coombe
Ärende: CHRIS_SOC: IF I WERE AMERICAN I WO
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11 Oct 04 18:46, Howie Coombe wrote to John Hull:
HC> Dear John, in regards to this message to me.
>> 08 Oct 04 16:18, Howie Coombe wrote to John Hull:
>>>> HC> Because Americans cant, as a rule, and sometimes dont want to,
>>>> HC> as a
>>>> I have always answered civil questions about our political system
>>>> from
>> HC> I will give credit where it is due, you have always seemed to
>> HC> answer
>> That's because conservative works better than liberal in general.
HC> I Certainly think a lot of residents of Scandinavia would have
HC> something to say about that line of Bullshit.
I submit that you haven't been keeping up with what's going on there. The
scandinavian governments that were famous for their cradle to grave liberalism
have been forced to cut back and eliminate a lot of the programs they touted
for years. The people got tired of giving more than half their earnings to the
government to pay for programs that paid the freight for those who sat on their
butts and drew the dole.
>> My personal political feelings do not interfere with my ability to
>> dissect history and understand why things happen, and my analysis
>> > thereof.
HC> Yes they do, mind you to give credit where it is due, so does
HC> mine, so does everybody's.
>>>> What I take exception to are those who preface their questions
>>>> with
>> HC> Which is perfect?.
>> Never said that.
HC> Maybe not in so many words but you did indicate as much by
HC> admitting that your response to attacks is to get angry.
>> Our internal politics have no bearing on your life in any
>> substantial way.
HC> Your internal politics have a bearing on your Economy and your
HC> culture, and that does effect my country, my economy, and my
HC> Culture in a substantial way.
If that's true, that isn't MY fault. Nobody is holding a gun to your
collective heads and forcing you to buy/use/watch American. That is a choice
that your countrymen have made in preference to local stuff. You want to place
blame, look in the mirror.
>>>> or on those running for office.
>> HC> Which again are perfect?.
>> Certainly never said that.
HC> Your Parlimentry Candidates have a bearing on your Economy and
HC> your Culture, and That again does have a substantial effect on my
HC> Economy, My Culture, and My Country.
We don't have a parliament.
>>>> First,
>> HC> Yes?.
>>>> your interest in the inner workings of our system is fine to the
>>>> extent
>> HC> I am glad you think that.
>>>> Ultimately,
>> HC> Yes?.
>>>> however,
>> HC> Yes?.
>>>> your opinions on those inner workings are meaningless in that they
>> HC> I Disagree, they are meaningfull in that they can affect the
>> HC> people,
>> Your opinions are not going to cause somebody to change their mind
>> in any
>> > substantial way for two reasons: First,
HC> Yes?.
>> Joe Average Citizen is not a participant here,
HC> So everybody here is extraordinary how?.
To the extent that we participate on a regular basis in the process, yes.
>> so will never hear your opinion;
HC> Aha, unless somebody here talks to them about it, and they might.
>> and second,
HC> Yes?.
>> the people in this echo will have already formed an opinion that is
>> likely to be unaffected by anything you have to say,
HC> In otherwords the people of this echo are too stuck in there ways.
No, not at all. Nobody has presented any cogent arguments to cause us to
change our minds.
>> and will probably be ticked off that somebody who doesn't even live
>> here has the audacity to try to change their opinions.
HC> Constructive comment is constructive comment and where it comes
HC> from should be irrelivent, and to suggest otherwise strikes me as
HC> politically xenophobic.
>> But,
HC> Yes?.
>> let's assume that you do change a couple of minds to your way of
>> thinking.
HC> OK, And?.
>> How much effect do you think two votes is going to have on the
>> overall outcome of the election?
HC> I Think that would depend on which election we are discussing,
HC> Presidential, Not much, but in terms of The Senate, The Congress,
HC> Or State or Locally?, who knows?.
We're talking about affecting national policy, which effects other countries,
according to you. Not the local dog catcher. And, like I said, some guy from
Australia talking to half a dozen guys in a Fido echo isn't going to change one
damn thing at that level.
>>>> If you have a question,
>> HC> Yes?,
>>>> ask it.
>> HC> I Already have, Publicly, granted i asked it of a Non American,
>> HC> but i
>> With the exception of Ralph Nader,
HC> Yes?.
>> the minor candidates are nothing but a distraction.
HC> And that is why i did not ask that question of an American, you
HC> all have Ralph Nader on the brain.
Ralph Nader is an idiot. He had his 15 minutes of fame 30 years ago, and is
still running around thinking he's significant. The only people he appeals to
here are fringe element tree huggers and Bambi lovers. Beyond that, he's
nothing but a spoiler in any election he manages to get into.
>> NONE of them has a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected,
HC> How do you know?, do you know any of them?, or any of the partys
HC> or policy's they represent?.
I only have to look at the history of third party candidates in this country.
It is exceedingly rare for ANY of them to get elected at the national level,
and nearly as rare at the state level.
>> so why pay any attention to them.
We don't for the most part.
HC> For the same reason Australia's Leader of The Australian Labor
HC> Party Oppisition Mark Latham did, because providing both sides are
HC> flexible as regards policy's, you can draft the good one's in to
HC> your major party.
>> The so-called third parties do have a valuable function,
HC> They Do?.
>> however.
HC> And it is?.
>> They are fertile ground for new ideas about how to deal with
>> problems.
HC> Yes they can be good for that too, but why does not the major
HC> partys come up with these new ideas's themselves?.
They do to some extent. The fringe parties, however, have nothing to lose, so
they are proposing all kinds of stuff all the time. Most of it is crap, but
they do have some good ideas from time to time, and those are quickly snapped
up by the majors.
>> Those ideas get picked up by the major parties and incorporated into
>> their
>> > platforms.
HC> In other words, Nicked.
>> But NO 3RD PARTY CANDIDATE WILL GET ENOUGH VOTES TO GET ELECTED.
HC> Getting votes is simply about getting peoples attention, and any
HC> body can get peoples attention, given enough time and energy.
You're looking at this through the filter of a parliamentary system. That
brings me back to my point about outsiders not understanding our system. This
is a two party system, always has been since day one. One of the things that
we rebelled against in 1776 was the idea of coalition governments, which is
what a parliamentary system is. Any coalitions are among the various factions
in Congress, but still within the context of two major parties.
>> At best,
HC> Yes?.
>> he will play the spoiler by syphoning votes from one or the other of
>> the majors.
HC> Are you refering to Ralph Nader, How can you be so sure?.
Experience, old boy, experience. And history.
John
America: First, Last, and Always!
Go to www.madgorilla.us for all your Domain Name Services at the lowest rates.
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* Origin: (1:379/1.99)
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