Text 7949, 197 rader
Skriven 2005-01-24 18:26:09 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
Kommentar till text 7912 av Darryl Perry (1:106/324)
Ärende: Re: fighting terrorism.
===============================
24 Jan 05 11:57, Darryl Perry wrote to John Hull:
DP> On 01-23-05, John Hull said...
JH>> 22 Jan 05 18:48, Darryl Perry wrote to John Hull:
JH>>
JH>> DP> On 01-22-05, John Hull said...
JH>>
JH>> JH>> 21 Jan 05 11:24, Björn Forsström wrote to Ed Connell:
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BrF>>>>> With my knowledge it would be impossible for me to
JH>> JH>> live BrF>>>>> there but I'm not the one to tell them how to
JH>> JH>> live their BrF>>>>> life.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BrF>>> You can really twist words and make an own opinion
JH>> JH>> of it.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BF> I don't even consider to move to Denmark or Noway
JH>> JH>> BF> either. I'm very happy where I am, just like you I
JH>> JH>> BF> guess.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BrF>>> I'm born and brought up in Sweden and enjoy the
JH>> JH>> freedom I BrF>>> have. They are born in Iraq and enjoy what
JH>> JH>> they have.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BrF>>> With your knowledge, would you concider to move to
JH>> JH>> North BrF>>> Korea and live there for the rest of your
JH>> JH>> life? BrF>>> I dont expect you to answer this with a yes or
JH>> JH>> that you BrF>>> will answer this at all though.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> EC>> I don't think ordinary North Koreans wouldn't enjoy
JH>> JH>> EC>freedom.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BF> You just made my point by not answering my question.
JH>> JH>> BF> Thank you.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BF> And now the American media says hi's looking at
JH>> JH>> BF> Iran......
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> BF> ...... has nothing to do with that.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> Bull. We have an old saying here: You're either with us,
JH>> JH>> or agin us.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> Meaning, of course, that Sweden (and any other country)
JH>> JH>> either is part of problem, or they're part of the solution.
JH>> JH>> You either help destroy terrori or you lend it support, even
JH>> JH>> if only by your silence.
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> There is no middle ground. Which side are you on?
JH>>
JH>> DP> The problem with that is that the US can't decide for other
JH>> DP> countries on how they will fight terrorism. I've always said
JH>> DP> that th best way for us to fight terrorism is to stop using
JH>> DP> foreign oil, or o all-together.. The terror-funding countries
JH>> DP> wouldn't be able to fund terrorism that way, and we would be
JH>> DP> able to remove ourselves from the locale's that put us in
JH>> DP> harms way. Unfortunately, that particular id doesn't get any
JH>> DP> airtime in the top rungs of this government. But, t US
JH>> DP> is only ONE country in the world, and the others are free to
JH>> DP> fight it any way they want.
JH>>
JH>> We aren't deciding for anybody. We are simply telling others how
JH>> WE are g to fight terrorism. Terrorism transcends national borders
JH>> and political lines. Terrorists come from all nationalities, and
JH>> all walks of life. Th are bound together by the hatred they have
JH>> for people who want to live in peace and who don't believe in
JH>> their particular brand of fanaticism. They move around without
JH>> regard for national sovereignty or political rules of conduct.
JH>> Their method of engendering change is murder, and suicide bombin
DP> I'm not arguing what a terrorist is, or where they come from or
DP> what drives them.
Just making sure we're on the same page.
JH>> Now, when you deal with that sort of mentality, you quickly
JH>> realize that t ONLY thing they understand is force, and that they
JH>> don't give a damn about anything but achieving their own agenda.
JH>> To effectively cut them out and destroy them, we have to be
JH>> aggressive and we have to go after them wherev they might be found,
JH>> even if that means going into some other country to m the strike.
DP> Terrorists are like poisonous snakes. The only way to deal with
DP> them is to cut off their tails. To be most effective, you musth cut off
DP> their tails right behind their heads :) However, for all intents and
DP> purposes, if you cut off the funding of the terrorists, and those who
DP> harbor terrorists, then that is much more effective. The flow of money is
DP> the life-blood of the torrorists. The flow of oil is where the money
DP> comes from for the terrorists. Cut off the flow of oil, and you cut off
DP> the flow of money.
Actually, most of the money the terrorists get is from dope dealing and gun
running, and to some extent kidnapping for ransom. Oil is not something you
can just sell to anyone. You have to have an infrastructure to get it out of
the ground, pump it, transport it to refineries, etc. Terrorists simply aren't
set up to do that sort of thing. They get their funds by selling drugs to
independant dealers/cartels a boatload at a time, or trading drugs for guns,
etc. And there are groups that collect money from people under false pretenses
that is then sent to terrorist groups. There have been a number of arab
organizations here that have been busted as fronts for al Queda and bin Laden.
I agree that cutting off their funding is a key action to take, but having the
US stop buying mideast oil isn't going to accomplish that.
JH>> Our president has made that absolutely crystal clear from the very
JH>> beginni Most of the countries in the world understand and are
JH>> working WITH us to g rid of the terrorists. There are some notable
JH>> exceptions as you no doubt aware.
JH>>
JH>> THOSE countries will have to learn the hard way that harboring
JH>> terrorists not a healthy thing to do. This is a war that MUST be
JH>> won at whatever cos Anything else is a descent into chaos and
JH>> anarchy.
DP> There are any number of nations that do not harbor terrorists that
DP> also do not support our way of dealing with the terrorists. It's not as
DP> you stated above, where they are either "with us or agin" us.
Sweden is one of those nations, at least to hear them tell it. But, if you've
been watching the news you would know that they are being inundated by illegal
immigrants, of mostly arab origin, and have no idea how many might be terrorist
sneaking into the country to hide behind Swedish neutrality.
Canada has a huge problems due to their lax border laws and lousy security. So
do many other countries not noted for being terrorist havens or for being
sympathetic to their cause. They say "we don't want to get involved" and think
that if they do provoke them, the terrorists will leave them alone. That is
insanely stupid. Sooner or later, they will realize their mistake - albeit in
tragic circumstances in all likelihood.
JH>> Now, with respect to oil, the US only gets part of its oil from
JH>> foreign sources. The terrorists will never make much of a big
JH>> deal about that bec the money they need to operate would largely
JH>> dry up if they damaged the oi producing capability of those
JH>> countries. They need the oil and its produc not to mention its
JH>> profits, as much as the rest of us. I agree that we sh be more oil
JH>> independent, but for reasons that have nothing to do with
JH>> terrorism.
DP> And if the US did not get any oil, or have any oil-interests in
DP> the gulf that would require a US military presense, do you think that the
DP> terrorists would be targeting us as they do? It doesn't matter how much
DP> of our oil is foreign. What matters is that we get our oil from the gulf
DP> at all. Even if we only got 1% from those gulf nations, it's still 1% too
DP> much.
So, just walk away and ignore the problem, eh? Those oil countries were might
glad to have us come in and find and develop that oil for them, and they've
grown rich from it. We don't put any strings on that, asking only that they
sell the oil at a reasonable price. We have as much right to buy it as anybody
does.
The problem is with Islam, not oil. Islam is a religion that cannot coexist
with other religions. It was born of war and never got beyond that. The goal
of Islam is to create Islamic rule over the entire world, no matter what TV
news is telling you. There is a huge amount of literature on the history of
Islam, and its goals. To really understand its origins and roots (what makes
it tick today) you have to study not only Islam itself, but the history of its
origins and the period of the Crusades during the Middle Ages for they are
inextricably bound together.
JH>> You conclude by saying the US is only one country, and we should
JH>> let other free to fight any way they want. The fundamental problem
JH>> with that is tha are nearly the only country witht the resources and
JH>> will to take the fight the terrorists. Most of the rest of the world
JH>> doesn't have the political or military strength to carry on a prolonged
JH>> campaign against them - we do Therefore, it falls to us to lead the way,
JH>> and if necessary go it alone destroy the terrorists. And we may be
JH>> forced to tell some countries that they expect to survive they will need
JH>> to make some choices. There is simp no other way to do it and beat them
JH>> long term.
DP> So it's not only "with us or agin us", but it's also "might makes
DP> right?". I will agree that the US has the resources and the will to fight
DP> terrorism. I'm just concerned about the wisdom and the leadership of that
DP> fight.
Well, the largest number of people to vote for the presidency voted in this
last election, and Bush got more votes than any previous president in history.
When push came to shove, more people believed he was the right man for the job
and Kerry wasn't. You can choose to believe all the eyewash the radical left
tried to shove down our throats about Bush (and the majority of the people
didn't believe) or you can get past all that and move ahead. If you have a
problem with Bush, then instead carping about the fact that he won, become part
of the discussion and make your concerns heard.
John
America: First, Last, and Always!
Go to www.madgorilla.us for all your Domain Name Services at the lowest rates.
--- Msged/386 TE 05
* Origin: We are the Watchmen of our own Liberty! (1:379/1.99)
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