Text 9321, 113 rader
Skriven 2009-02-21 16:53:01 av Dan Ceppa (1:138/666.0)
     Kommentar till en text av JOHN FITZGERALD
Ärende: GITMO DISTORIONS EXPOSED
================================
-> On 20 Feb 09  18:04:44, JOHN FITZGERALD got back to DAN CEPPA 
-> Re: GITMO DISTORIONS EXPOSED

 JF> in one's eye and  waterboarding.   Yet you have these things 
 JF> all lumped together.
 
 DC>  Waterbaording meets all of the definitions of torture.

 JF> A legal distinction.  Again, your label hanging will never put
 JF> waterboarding in the same category as real torture, where eyes are 

Are you actually defending torture?  

 DC>   Your problem is that you believe Bush and company with 
 DC>   their Orwellian re-dedfinitions  of the word.  

 JF> Your problem is if some one hangs the word torture on it, you'll
 JF> believe it and lump it all together with red-hot pokers in the eye,
 JF> etc. A rather typical partisan pathology apparently.

Ever been waterbaorded?  Get back to me after a session.  

 JF>  Who has made that claim, and moreover, how can they make that 
 JF>  'estimation' when the detainees have yet to be tried?
 
 DC>  The US Military, for one. 

 JF> Show me where they made such a claim, and then try to explain how
 JF> they did so if, as you claim, they were never tried.

Just how many prisoners were sent to Gitmo?  How many are there now?  
How many trials have been held?  
 
 DC>  That's why so many have been released under Bush.  
 
 JF> Yet later many of them turn up at terrorist training camps and other
 JF> camps and other similar points of interest.  
 
 DC> Just how many would that be?  1, a couple, 12, 25?  (repeat number 
 DC> sequence in different order a few times) 

 JF> Pick your own number and tell me what you would like this
 JF> distinction  to amount to.
 JF> 
 
 DC>  Because those are the "exact figures" given 
 DC>   out by the US gvt on it.

 JF> Which figures?  1? 12? 25?

Those ARE the figures as given out by the *gvt*.  They don't know.  
And, the total goes up and down at a whim.  
 
 
 JF>  And how do you know they weren't released just so they could 
 JF>  find out where they would go and to whom they were reporting to?
 
 DC>  Not only that, those that did so aren't even identified.  I think 
 DC>  that 3 is the number of cases that can actually be verified.

 JF> Empty claim.  Show your sources.  This is obviously a partisan beef 
 JF> that only attempts to give weight to it with the spurious claim that 

You would think that the gvt would know.  But, they cannot provide 
that information.  I'm not about to look for what isn't there.  

 JF> operations were not performed 100% correctly, 100% of the time.
 JF> Remember, the total number at Gitmo was around 300.  Seems you want us

Try 775  

 DC> Many were.   Many were turned in by their neighbors  
 DC> simply for the reward money. 

 JF> Now we're supposed to believe that they carted away anyone who was
 JF> turned in by a phone call.  Baloney.  Cite me one confirmed example.

Ask the people who are detained.  Oh, that's right.  They aren't allowed to 
even communicate with their lawyers...  
 
 JF>  While we're at it, conditions at Gitmo are much better 
 JF>  than they are in an average prison in the US, 
 JF>  which are over crowded, for openers.
 
 DC>  You mean like, 24 hr lighting, lack of blanckets,
 DC>  let alone bedding? 

 JF> You're referring to some of the techniques used to make some of
 JF> them them talk.   Poor baby didn't have a blanket?  How horrible!

That is agains the Geneva Conventions.  

 JF> I've listened to several interviews from people who worked there. 
 JF> They said that because of all the media hype, the ACLU, and foreign 

And others are coming forward to document the abuses.  

 JF> There were a couple of guards who got way out of line, but only in
 JF> response to being spit at and having dung thrown at them.  Of course 

The situation that caused the known abuses is systemic.  The problem came 
from the Rules of Engagement provided by the WH itself.  It's not about 
a "few bad apples".  Those bad apples were placed purposely there.  


 JF> This is obviously a partisan and spiteful issue for you.  Try to
 JF> retain some objectivity.

I'm not the one condoning torture.  


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