Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4275
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   27601
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/1974
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   5999
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33773
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   23439
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12841
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4155
FN_SYSOP   41520
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13557
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16041
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22002
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   894
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4779
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1117
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   2632
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13030
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2055
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
Möte TECH, 2617 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 1543, 127 rader
Skriven 2005-05-09 20:06:24 av Roy J. Tellason (1:270/615.0)
   Kommentar till text 1533 av CHARLES ANGELICH (1:123/140)
Ärende: Freebies
================
CHARLES ANGELICH wrote in a message to ROY J. TELLASON:

RJT>> I have, from time to time, been dropping notes to
RJT>> webmasters with my opinions and comments on their sites.
RJT>> Sometimes I even get a reply. Sometimes "webmaster@whatever.com" 
RJT>> isn't a valid address, since they seem to have become a target 
RJT>> for spam. I've been at this for somewhat longer than a year. 

CA>> I mean _discuss_ this with webmasters. Not just drop them
CA>> a comment or two or three but _discuss_ the pros and cons
CA>> and reasons why. 

RJT> There haven't been too many of them that seem to be open
RJT> to such discussion... 

CA> My own experiences have been that the _female_ webmasters are more
CA> willing to discuss standards than the male. Not unlike FIDO there 
CA> are a few zealots and general misfits that become insulting but not 
CA> all are that way.

No big surprise there.

CA> --8<--cut 

RJT>> Case in point: For some folks, a suggestion (which a browser tag 
RJT>> is more often than not) isn't good enough. They can say what font 
RJT>> they want to use, and what size, and so forth. But suppose you 
RJT>> don't have that font on your machine? 

CA>> The established practice is to specify three different fonts just 
CA>> in case your preferred font is unavailable on a particular 
CA>> machine. 

RJT> Yep. One of the things that tends to bulk up pages unnecessarily. 
RJT> Why not let me decide what font I want to use here? 

CA> To a degree 'fit' is a consideration. Some fonts aren't kerned to
CA> the degree that others are and text may or may not fit within the 
CA> allocated spaces if the font type changes.

Yeah.  But the whole "allocated spaces" thing assumes that a page is going to
render at the end user's machine in the same exact way that it renders at the
page author's machine,  which is probably a big mistake.  I see a lot of that,
where they painstakingly lay stuff out assuming some particular screen
resolution,  800x600 being a common one,  and I'm viewing it at 1024x768,  so
there's a big empty space on the right side...   Or someone else who is a bit
more visually impaired is viewing at 640x480,  and has to scroll horizontally.

The whole point of HTML is that the person viewing it should have their browser
rendering the page optimally for their situation.

RJT>> The solution (and there are times when I *hate* that word!) on a 
RJT>> lot of sites is to load a graphic to substitute. This is _OFTEN_ 
RJT>> done for menu items, typically going down the left side of the 
RJT>> page. 

CA>> I've never found a webpage that defaults to graphics if a font is 
CA>> not available. 

RJT> They didn't specify a font in these cases, just the "ALT=" tag to 
RJT> say some text if you didn't get the graphic. Sometimes I feel like 
RJT> I'd be better off viewing these pages in text-only mode... 

CA>> Webmasters I have communicated with put graphics into those menus 
CA>> intentionally with no intent to use text at any time. 

RJT> Yep. Which leaves some folks out entirely. Those who are 
RJT> visually-impaired ferinstance. 

CA> The "ALT" tag you mention is intended as an aide to the visually 
CA> impaired to allow their screen readers to read the ALT tags aloud. 

RJT>> Now, my eyes aren't quite what they used to be. I really like the 
RJT>> feature of firefox where you can hit a single keystroke and make 
RJT>> the type get bigger. But when the menus and such are all graphics 
RJT>> rather than words, this doesn't work. Which makes it hard for me 
RJT>> to view those sites. 

CA>> Use OPERA, it will enlarge both text _and_ graphics for you. :-) 

RJT> Payware, ain't it? :-) 

CA> There is a version that is adware supported (free) if I remember 
CA> correctly.

I think I'll stick with firefox,  with the adblock plugin...  :-)

RJT>> Thier loss, I'll get what I want somewhere else... 

RJT>> Once a lot of those people realize that I have that choice, maybe 
RJT>> they'll wake up.

CA>> Those who sell webpages _do_ realize that you have that choice 
CA>> which is why many take the time to learn how to code the most 
CA>> generic code possible considering the variety of browser support  
CA>> for various code. They test with multiple browsers or have others 
CA>> test for them.

RJT> All too often this isn't the case, though. The most concession 
RJT> people seem to be willing to make is IE or Netscape...

CA>> Not unlike Microsoft dropping support for 'older' software, the 
CA>> webmaster will eventually decide that such-and-such a browser has 
CA>> outlived it's useful lifespan and stop making concessions for that 
CA>> browser's problem areas.

CA>> Granted there are some webmasters who out of arrogance or 
CA>> ignorance write webpages that only one browser can accomodate and 
CA>> those who do their work in that fashion are helping no one, not 
CA>> even themselves.

RJT> Exactly my point. 

RJT> I far prefer "best viewed with ANY browser" and similar pages.  :-)

CA> My own webpages at my 'tech' website are 'any-browser' compatible 
CA> but I also have another website that requires minimal javascripting 
CA> to be fully appreciated. All pages will _display_ properly but 
CA> something will be lost on _certain_ pages without javascripting at 
CA> the 'entertainment' website.

Which is still way better than them saying that I *NEED* all this miscellaneous
stuff they want me to install,  like flash,  etc.  Your pages are definitely
not the ones I'm griping about.  :-)

--- 
 * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-838-8539 (1:270/615)