Text 22422, 121 rader
Skriven 2012-03-15 00:40:24 av HAP NEWSOM (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av GLEN JAMIESON
Ärende: SILENT SERVICE 20314
============================
G'day Glen!

->  ->  ->  -> And now they are talking about replacements.  Suggestions 
that
-> 
->  ->  -> They claim that we have learnt a lot of lessons from building
the
->  ->  -> Collins, and now we could do a better job.
->  ->  
->  ->  -> "Shallow" is relative.  According to what I have read of the
->  ->  -> discussions, even the 5500t French Barracuda class, with 8.8 m 
beam 
->  ->  -> considered too large to operate in littoral (brown) waters. 
Only
->  ->  -> smaller, non-nuclear subs fit this role.  They have to be
capable 
of
->  ->  -> operating at only 2 knots above an irregular seabed, or sit on 
the
->  ->  -> bottom for extended periods.  They also have to be capable of 
long
->  ->  -> distance travel, and be cheap enough for Australia to afford.  
They
->  ->  -> say a nuclear sub would cost as much as several conventional 
ones.
->  ->  ->
->  ->  HN> US nuclear attack subs have worked in littoral 
->  ->  HN> waters for years. However I would not recommend
->  ->  HN> them as a regular diet. I suppose it would also
->  ->  HN> depend on the river as well. Some are wide and 
->  ->  HN> deep enough that many boats could navigate 
->  ->  HN> them with out being detected. 
-> 
-> My personal view is that Australia doesn't need submarines.  Any
-> seaborne invasion force would be detected long before arrival, and
-> dealt with by air or surface defence.  Considering the most recent
-> naval skirmish, in the Falklands, were submarines used?  I think it
-> was all aircraft and ship to ship missiles.
->
Any seaborne invasion force would already
have prepared defenses for air and surface
attacks. It is much harder to defend against
an unseen attacker who can attack anywhere along
the route, and possibly remain undetected after
the attack as well.
 
->  ->  -> And, of course, above all else, politics comes into it.
->  ->  -> 
->  ->  HN> No getting around that...which may mean
->  ->  HN> the OZ navy will be once again saddled
->  ->  HN> with a sub that it's difficult to even 
->  ->  HN> get a crew to man her. As it is the 
->  ->  HN> Collins class boats have a hard time
->  ->  HN> getting people to volunteer to crew them.
->  -> 
->  -> If all the Collins boats were in working order at the same time, 
there
->  -> would not be enough crews to man them.
->  ->
->  HN> And so far that has never happened.
-> 
-> Right!
->
All the more reason to go with a 
boat that has a proven track record
of success. 
  
->  ->  -> Long range may not be needed in Sweden, but Australia is bigger,
->  ->  -> bigger.  And the Pacific Ocean is rather empty.
->  ->  ->
->  ->  HN> I said there's not much need for 
->  ->  HN> a huge range, not that the boats
->  ->  HN> are not capable of it. They run
-> 
->  ->  HN> run them as brown water boats
->  ->  HN> or deep sea boats? The Gotlands
->  ->  HN> can do both, but they are not 
->  ->  HN> designed to be deep water boats
->  ->  HN> primarily. Provisions for the 
->  ->  HN> crew would be a bigger factor 
->  ->  HN> than the range of the boat itself.
->  -> 
->  -> Can you drag a trawl net with those boats?  Lots of prawns in the
->  -> waters around Australia to feed the crew.
->  ->
->  HN> The biggest problem with the coastal 
->  HN> waters of OZ, are two fold...clear
->  HN> water makes hiding difficult, and 
->  HN> all those dang coral reefs make 
->  HN> navigation a bugaboo! Many subs
->  HN> have capabilities to "launch" divers
->  HN> so you would not need a net!
-> 
-> I can just picture the mess divers out collecting the oysters,
-> scallops and abalones for the evening meal...
->
Sounds good to me!!
  
->  -> Ship building is not doing well in Eastern Australia, but in the
West
->  -> they are building large, 40 knot catamaran transports for the US 
Navy,
->  -> using a factory in USA to complete the first order of 12.
-> 
->  HN> That would be AUSTAL...and they have 
->  HN> shipyards in the USA as well, Norfolk
->  HN> for one I think and I think the other
->  HN> is on the gulf coast somewhere
-> 
-> Yes.  I travelled on an Austal catamaran ferry from Athens to
-> Santorini island in '06.  It was fast and comfortable, and the wide
-> upper deck gave good viewing.  Ten minutes was enough time to dock and
-> load/unload at Io island.
-> 
They are also building other craft
as well, teaming up with Northrup 
Grummond I think.
chat with you soon!
ha
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 And Still Here. Join Us: www.DocsPl (1:123/140)