Text 45074, 99 rader
Skriven 2006-12-27 11:57:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 45002 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Kindergarten
====================
Hello Roy!

On Monday December 25 2006 17:24, you wrote to me:

 RW> 24 Dec 06 17:57, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:

 MvdV>> I can see that there is a lot of dead wood. I can make an
 MvdV>> estimate of the number of active participants.

 RW> Not without calling each and every one of them.

Have a look at their nodelist yourself and it will stare you in the face...

 RW>>> If you aren't reading the echoes, how can you know if they have
 RW>>> traffic or not?

 MvdV>> The estimate tells me there can not be enough traffic for 350+
 MvdV>> live echos.

 RW> I believe you'll find that some of those are 'placeholders' and aren't
 RW> distributed echoes.

Right. That is one of the reasons I said, it could not reflect reality.
"Placeholders" in an echo list do not reflect reality.

 RW>>> Let me re-phrase; From what I hear, they didn't have the
 RW>>> in-fighting that Fidonet has when they were nearly as big as
 RW>>> Fidonet is now.

 MvdV>> Going by hearsay eh?

 RW> It might be called hearsay when you read it from me.

Hearsay is information obtained by the testimony of others.

 RW> I know a few of the people who are in that net.

And so your knowledges of that net is obitained by hearing their testimony. You
do not have the information by  personal observation. I.e. hearsay.

 RW>>> A list may not be corrupted, if it has checks and balances from
 RW>>> the outside.

 MvdV>> In this case, it does not.

 RW> Correct and thus, it has been corrupted. And not just recently, it was
 RW> corrupt from the beginning. Perhaps it wasn't meant to be that way,
 RW> but it surfaced soon enough.

Anything that van be abused *will* be abused sooner or later.

 RW>>> The person who runs it may be a crook like LaCosta, but with
 RW>>> outside observers using the checks and balances can keep the
 RW>>> echolist uncorrupt. Of course, it cannot be a privately owned
 RW>>> list like LaCosta's.

 MvdV>> I agree that with a different setup it could work. Like how it
 MvdV>> was done in Z2 where the list keeper was not Lord and Master,
 MvdV>> but subject to the *ECs and an echomail policy.

 RW> That same echomail policy was rejected here because it was offered by
 RW> an already corrupt person who wanted to dominate the distribution

It could have worked nevertheless. Even if the person introducing it wa a
crook. I still think it wass a mistake of the Z1 ciommunity to not adopt an
echomail policy.

 RW> of echomail. Not to mention that *ECs are subject to the whims of *Cs.

Wrong.

 RW>>> Yeup. And the corruption started a long time ago. Almost
 RW>>> immediately after the failure of the Kohl - Frezburg echolist
 RW>>> after Adrian Walker discontinued his echolist. c1997

 MvdV>> That was when the merger of the Z1 and Z2 echolist failed. Yes,
 MvdV>> I think that was when the problem started. It also led up to
 MvdV>> the dropping of the Z2 list BTW.

 RW> Yes, I remember that. I think the Z2 list keeper was disheartened when
 RW> the moderators flocked to LaCosta's list instead of his.

They did't "flock to LaCosta". The moderators who were listed in the Z2 list
just remained there.

No, he just came to the conclusion that he was carrying water to the sea. I.e.
doing a job that was not needed. So he resigned. Apparently the Z2 community
agreed, because no one stepped forward to fill the gap.

 RW> It was really bad planning by Adrian Walker, who was influenced by
 RW> Sylvestre and Bodger. Bodger was the Z1EC back then.

Water under the bridge.


Cheers, Michiel

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