Text 8436, 155 rader
Skriven 2005-03-27 11:36:12 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
   Kommentar till text 8402 av SHANNON TALLEY (1:275/311)
Ärende: FidoNews 22:12 [02/06]: General Articles
================================================
Hello SHANNON,

26 Mar 2005 22:07, SHANNON TALLEY wrote to MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST:

 >> A dog is a dog is a dog. And the Compact Disk is just a more 
 >> modern version of the magentic disk.

 ST> So any picture of any kind of dog with anything resembling any 
 ST> kind of computer part in it's mouth is the artistic property 
 ST> (or should be) of TJ? 

There are two issues here:

1) The copyright or intelectual property issue.
2) The trade mark issue.

 ST> I'm (obviously) being cynical here.  Look -- if he would be so 
 ST> inclined to ask me to remove the graphic himself, I'd be happy
 ST> to discuss it with him.
 
 ST> However, it no more resembles the original graphic than I 
 ST> resemble Brad Pitt.

That of course is a matter of opinion. TJ may see it different and a court may
rule different. It is even possible that a court rules one way on the copyright
issue and another court rules the other way on the trade mark issue.

Mind you, this is still about how it is looked upon in The Netherlands.
 
/To me/ the similarities between Tj's dog and yours are greater than the
differences. And if a court would rule that I am not the only one and that
customers could confuse your product with that of TJ, it could rule that you
may not use it as a trade mark if TJ object. Even though the copyright is still
yours. 

OTOH you could face a charge of plagiarism while you might still use it as a
trade mark because your business does not compete with TJ's.
  
 >> ST> My site is named after "Fido", i.e. Dogs.
 >> And so is FidoNet..

 ST> Anything with Fido in it must be "Fidonet" property then..

No, it all depends on whether the customer may confuse your product with that
of the holder of the trademark "Fido" or "FidoNet".

If you sell underware with the trade mark of "Fido", there would be no problem
as TJ does not sell underware. But if you write anf FTN mailer and were to
market it under the name "Fidos", there would be a problem as it is too close
too "Fido" and it is a competing product. Customers may accidentally take you
product from the shelf, while they were actually looking for TJ's.
   
 ST> But since Fidonet isn't an entity capable of owning anything, than it 
 ST> can't be ... can it?

The holder of the trade mark can own something however.

 ST> What came first, the word Fido or Fidonet?

The court could take that in consideration.

But then again: what was first, the word "window" or the OS from Bill gates?

 ST> This conversation is kind of comical, wouldn't you say?

Not at all. It is my considered opinion that you would not get away with the
dog with CD in this country if the legitimate holder of the trade mark would
object.
 
 >> but that does nor change the fact that your logo looks an awful 
 >> lot like TJ's.

 ST> Your opinion... But, you know what they say about opinions -- 
 ST> and we all have one...

Sure, in my opinion. Which I base on comparable issues that courts in The
Netherlands have ruled upon.

Here is a list of similarities:

1) Dog
2) Sitting
3) waving tail
4) friendly looking
5) disk in mouth.

 >> >> Hmmm... we take a dim view on cost recovery here...

 >> ST> What do you guys to do a BBS Sysop that does cost recovery of 
 >> ST> some kind?

 >> Nothing...

 ST> What did you mean regarding the "dim view" ?

It has been abused too often in the past.

 >> Same here. We don't do anything to people trying to sell sand in 
 >> the desert...

 ST> During the summer we sell bottled water at the beach and make a 
 ST> ton of money :)

Try to sell sea water and see how much money you make... ;-)


 >> You should have some idea, you are advertising your products on a 
 >> globa medium. (shipping costs)

 ST> I leave that up to the company that handles my merchandise. It's 
 ST> between them and the consumer.

It is not your merchandise? You advertise for a third party? And if it is
bewteen them and the consumer, how can you offer discounts?

 >> Because it is /your/ hobby. Would you pay for the grass because my 
 >> hobby is gardening?

 ST> Perhaps you could grow a really really (really) nice garden and 
 ST> charge entry fees for tours.  Same idea, different medium.

It is all a matter of supply and demand. If there are a thousand gardens in
twon that are just as nice and entry is free, you won't make money on asking an
entrance fee for yours.

 >> If the suckers want to pay for what they can get for free 
 >> elsewhere that is their choice.

 ST> I do offer more services than other BBS's that I'm aware of, 
 ST> more interesting content, and such.

That is what the others say too.

 ST> Obviously enough to attract a good sum of donations.

Hmmm...

 >> ST> high, but I was "zero" dollars out of pocket.  Cost recovery 
 >> ST> is 'nice'... :) So is winning the lottery...

 ST> Sure, but building a business model for cost recovery is 
 ST> actually obtainable by anyone with the initiative and drive.
 ST> One is only limited by their business practice, education and
 ST> imagination.  Read the history of AOL.  It 
 ST> started as a lowly BBS and 3 programmers.

Same her with one of the big providers; Xs4all.

But that's hardly a "BBS" is it?


Cheers, Michiel

--- Msged 6.0.1
 * Origin: Woolum nastatium percolum hazip. (2:280/5555)