Text 33090, 426 rader
Skriven 2009-06-05 14:57:15 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 33058 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Saberi vs Blom
======================
05 Jun 09 11:33, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:

 RW>> Wrong. She brought attention to herself long before that. That's why
 RW>> her press pass was revoked.

 MvdV> So you admit that it was revoked.

No, I don't admit it. Her father said that she said, which makes it
hearsay. You may admit that you think it was revoked if you want.

 MvdV>>> When they took a closer look, they found her in possession of
 MvdV>>> classified documents.

 RW>> Wrong.

 MvdV> Right.

Wrong.

 MvdV>>> And the charges were not dropped, Her sentence was reduced to
 MvdV>>> two yeras and converted into a suspended sentence, so she wad
 MvdV>>> set free on parole.

 RW>> That's as good as dropped.

 MvdV> Only in your mind.

If they weren't dropped, then she'd still be in prison. She isn't.

 MvdV>>> If she viloates the conditions of the parole, she can still go
 MvdV>>> back to jail. If she is stupid enough to go to Iran again...

 RW>> Who said she ever left Iran?

 MvdV> The newspaper reports. They say that after her release she went
 MvdV> "home" with her her parents who live in the US.

Home at that time was her place in Iran and her parents went there with
her.

In fact, she stayed in Iran for two more weeks before returning to ND
just a few days ago.

 MvdV>>> At least she got a trial. Contrary to Sami Al-Haj, an Al
 MvdV>>> Jazeera cameraman who was held for six years in Guantanamo by
 MvdV>>> the U.S. government. Without at trial and without being
 MvdV>>> charged.

 RW>> Shit happens...next time he'll think twice about getting involved
 RW>> with terrorists.

 MvdV> Who says he was involved with terrorists? he was never charged.

He was caught by Pakistani soldiers on the Pakistani/Afghanistan border,
where Islamic terrorists hang out. Very few of the gitmo terrorists had
been charged with anything, since they were being held as "illegal enemy
combatants" and under investigation...

 MvdV>>> Because under political pressure from the US her sentence was
 MvdV>>> suspended.

 RW>> The US didn't put any pressure on the Iranians...

 MvdV> Sure they did.

Don't you hate being wrong so many times?

"April 10 (UPI) - A U.S. Islamic advocacy group Friday urged the Iranian
government to release a jailed American journalist as a gesture of good
will.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations said it delivered a letter
calling for Roxana Saberi's release to the Iranian Interests Section,
located in Pakistan's Embassy in Washington."

She's not American, so the Islamic Advocacy Group had to interact for her.

 RW>>>> She openly admitted that she bought a bottle of wine.

 MvdV>>> So contrary to what you claimed she violated the law.

 RW>> Did she?

 MvdV> Yes she did.

You're going by hearsay...

 MvdV> She worked as a journalist without having the credentials.

Hearsay.

 MvdV> Sha was found in posession of classified marteial.

Hearsay.

 MvdV> Both are against the law.

How do you know that? Have you read the Iranian law or are you leaning on
hearsay again?

 RW>>>> "She said that she had bought a bottle of wine and the person
 RW>>>> that sold it had reported it and then they came and arrested
 RW>>>> her," her father said, adding that the wine purchase was just an
 RW>>>> excuse to arrest her.

 MvdV>>> Hearsay.

 RW>> A direct quote from her father.

 MvdV> That is hearsay.

So is everything you've presented here.

 RW>>  If it wasn't so, the Iranians would have refuted what he said. They
 RW>> haven't.

 MvdV> How do you know what the Iranians would do or what they would not
 MvdV> do?

Just as you know that what you've said so far is not proof of what
happened.

 MvdV> They are Iranians, they do not observe US American logic.

Hearsay.

 MvdV>>> So she did not have credential at the time of her arrest. The
 MvdV>>> claim that it was tolerated is meaningless. Anyone can make
 MvdV>>> such a claim.

 RW>> Apparently the Iranians didn't pay her any attention, or she would
 RW>> have been arrested before 3 years had passed. That implies that they
 RW>> tolerated whatever she was doing.

 MvdV> Until they stopped tolarating it.

Duhhhh! That could have been because of something that happened in their
sphere of influence, such as the leakage of Israel's plan to bomb their
nuclear facilities. Maybe the person who claimed that she bought the wine
was a spy.

 MvdV> That is the problem with acting under tolerance. it can be revoked
 MvdV> any minute and then one has no leg to stand on.

And she's not alone, or at least she wasn't. There are still some EU
reporters in custody there.

 MvdV>>> Iran does not recognise dual nationality. She was in iran when
 MvdV>>> she was arrested.

 RW>> Iranian Judiciary, accused Haleh Esfandiari, Kian Tajbakhsh and
 RW>> Parnaz Azima of "Acting against national security by engaging in
 RW>> propaganda against The Islamic Republic Of Iran and spying on for
 RW>> foreigners.

 MvdV> Your point?

Apparently someone there does recognize dual nationality, as the above are
also dual nationals there.

 RW>> "Azima, a reporter for the Persian-language services of Radio Free
 RW>> Europe who holds both Iranian and American citizenship, is also
 RW>> being prevented from leaving Iran. Her passport was confiscated by
 RW>> the authorities in January 2007. On May 21, following the deposit of
 RW>> a large bail payment, the authorities refused to return her
 RW>> passport."

 MvdV> Your point?

Sorry all of this is going over your head.

 MvdV>>> Saberi was born in the US. She was raised in the US. For all
 MvdV>>> intents and purposes she is American.

 RW>> Better check here photograph.

 MvdV> http://www.nypost.com/seven/04262009/photos/roxana_saberi.jpg

 MvdV> Does that look like an Iranian?

 RW>> She doesn't dress like, doesn't talk like, nor does she act like an
 RW>> American. She's Iranian thru and thru...

 MvdV> No, she is not.

Yeup. http://tinyurl.com/ls34oc

 MvdV> Saberi was born in New Jersey and grew up in Fargo, North Dakota,
 MvdV> the daughter of Reza Saberi, who was born in Iran, and Akiko
 MvdV> Saberi, who is from Japan.[10] Graduating with honors from Fargo
 MvdV> North High School in 1994, Roxana played piano and soccer, and took
 MvdV> part in Key Club and danceline.[11] Saberi was inducted into the
 MvdV> school's Hall of Fame in 2007.[11]

That doesn't make her American. All 7 of the Saudi who flew airplanes into
tall buildings in NY City were students in the US too. In Iran, she
dressed like an Iranian with the woman's wear of muslims. An American
woman wouldn't do that.

 MvdV> She graduated in 1997 from Concordia College in Moorhead,
 MvdV> Minnesota, with degrees in Communication and French. Saberi also
 MvdV> played for the Cobbers soccer team in both the 1994 and 1996
 MvdV> seasons.[12]

 MvdV> Chosen as Miss North Dakota in 1997,[12] she was among the top ten

Keep in mind that they don't have very many good lookin' women in ND...she
probably stood out because of her Japanese heritage.

 MvdV> finalists in Miss America 1998, winning the Scholar Award.[11]
 MvdV> Saberi holds her first Master's Degree in Broadcast Journalism from
 MvdV> Northwestern University and her second Master's Degree in
 MvdV> International Relations from Hughes Hall, Cambridge,[11][13] where
 MvdV> she played for the King's College, Cambridge soccer team

 MvdV> Sha is as American as you can get.

Wrong. She is still an Iranian.

 MvdV>>> In the US they do not like young man who respond to the mating
 MvdV>>> call of willing young American females. Menno Blom made the
 MvdV>>> mistake of not taking that into account.

 RW>> LOL! Only fools fight lost battles to the bitter end.

 MvdV> Simply stating the facts.

See above.

 MvdV>>> In Iran they do not like gorgeous young American females that
 MvdV>>> issue mating calls. Roxana Saberi made the mistake of not
 MvdV>>> taking that into account.

 RW>> LOL! Only fools fight lost battles to the bitter end.

 MvdV> Simply stating the facts..

 LOL! Only fools fight lost battles to the bitter end.

 MvdV>>> Iran does not recognise dual nationality.

 RW>> If not, why do they confiscate non-Iranian passports?

 MvdV> Exactly because of that. They do not recongnise dual nationality.
 MvdV> So when a person has two passports, one must be illegal. So they
 MvdV> confiscate it.

More hearsay? That doesn't guarantee she won't flee the country in the
face of charges.

 RW>>>> "Ms Saberi, who holds an Iranian passport in addition to her
 RW>>>> American one, has lived in the Islamic republic for the past six
 RW>>>> years."

 MvdV>>> That does not unmake her an American. Iran does not recognise
 MvdV>>> dual citizenship.

 RW>> If not, why do they confiscate non-Iranian passports?

 MvdV> Do they? The report you quoted just say "her passport". Not which
 MvdV> one, the American or the Iranian.

More hearsay.

 MvdV>>>>> Blom fell into a trap.

 RW>>>> Blom built his own trap...

 MvdV>>> Then so did Saberi. Man, look at her. She is gorgeous!

 RW>> She's an Iranian...she's young looking, but not gorgeous.

 MvdV> http://michellerafter.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/roxana-saberi-pho
 MvdV> to.jpg

 MvdV> Looks gorgeous to me.

 RW>> Her nose isthe size of a camel's,

 MvdV> http://azadmardoman.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/roxana-saberi.jpg

 MvdV> Nothing wrong with her nose...

LOL! See camel's ass...

 RW>> her face will soon have the shadows of a mustache and sideburns, she
 RW>> soon will be as attractive as a camel's ass. Worst of all, her nose
 RW>> will continue to increase in size the older she gets.

 MvdV> Perhaps in another 20 years..

To late to sever any relationship. She'll be fat and ugly, with umpteen
kids hangin' on her skirt.

 MvdV> In the meantime she is a gorgeous looking  young women even by my
 MvdV> standards.

I'd say you have poor standards. She's so ugly, she'd stop shit in
mid-air.

 MvdV> In Iran they do not want women like that to expose themselves.

They don't want anyone to know what they will look like in 20 years.

 MvdV>>> Bullshit. She was not "returning to Iran" She is born and
 MvdV>>> raised in America. She is an American.

 RW>> Bullshit. She is an Iranian, not an American. Perhaps in two more
 RW>> generations with a change in attitudes and intra-marital offspring
 RW>> educated in America, the next generation might get lucky and be
 RW>> American.

 MvdV> She was born in new Yersey and grew up in Fargo ND... See abpove.
 MvdV> She is more American than Obama.

O'bama has Irish and German (and African) ancestory. She only has Iranian
ancestory. He's (unfortunately) more American than she is, because his
ancestory came here in the 18th century. His mother's father was a
descendant of those German immigrants.

 RW>> Iranian intelligence agents often bring politically motivated
 RW>> charges of "endangering national security" against activists and
 RW>> intellectuals. The detentions and travel bans are part of a broad
 RW>> crackdown being mounted against Iranian human rights activists,
 RW>> students, and labor organizers and etc by Iranian intelligence
 RW>> services.

 MvdV> Yep. That is Iran. Plus that they do not like Amercians. Especially
 MvdV> good looking female Americans. Any Aemrican with a brain would have
 MvdV> stayed home.

Which American are you talking about that went to Iran? I don't know of
any.

 RW>>>> Young people are like that.

 MvdV>>> And sometimes young people are stupid. Like Blom and Saberi.

 RW>> Blom certainly was. Saberi has a different attitude about herself.
 RW>> She didn't live in Iran for the last six years looking for 14yo sex
 RW>> partners.

 MvdV> That might have been the better choice. If sex with a fourteen year
 MvdV> old was all she did, nobody would have bothered her.

LOL! That's showing your ignorance of Islamic law. If caught doing that,
he and she would be stoned to death for adultry.

 MvdV> In the Islamic world fourteen years is not too young for sex. The
 MvdV> Profit married a nine year old girl..

That's different, key word there is married. Unmarried people having a
sexual relationship are stoned to death when found out. My aunt and uncle
spent a few years in Iran under the Shaw. They witnessed a princess and
here lover stoned to death in public. They saw people get their hand
whacked off because they stole something. The second time they get caught,
it's their head. And that was an open society where Americans were
welcome.

 MvdV> No, she was not looking for sex, but she certainly was looking for
 MvdV> trouble. If she wanted to be a reporter, she shuld have stayed home
 MvdV> in the US.

She was a student in Iran, instead.

 MvdV>>> Of course she is free to make her own decisions. But if she
 MvdV>>> makes stupid decisions, she has to accept the consequences.

 RW>> How much jail time did she do again?

 MvdV> Several month.

Four months...how many years did Blom do?

 RW>> Compare that to Blom's jail time and tell us who is the stupid one.

 MvdV> Stupidity is not measerd in jail time. Blom's only stupidity was
 MvdV> not realising that an offer that looks to good to be true, usually
 MvdV> isn't.

His real mistake was thinking with his dick.

 MvdV> Saberi is no ignoramus. She holds several degrees and knows her way
 MvdV> around. She could and should have known what she was getting into
 MvdV> when she moved to Iran to work as a journalist for an American
 MvdV> company.

She's young and idealisic...she'll be heard from again, maybe even in
Iran.

 MvdV> She knowingly and willingly walked into a snake pit.

That's what idealists do.

 RW>>>> Just as Blom deserved to be shot by firing squad for his
 RW>>>> stupidity.

 MvdV>>> That is not how the US court ruled.

 RW>> It's a good thing he wasn't tried in an Iranian court eh!

 MvdV> On the contrary. What happened to Blom would never have happened in
 MvdV> Iran. No court in Iran would have convicted him, what he did was
 MvdV> not against Iranian law.

LOL! Again with your ignorance of muslim law. He would have lost his head
if the other party wasn't willing and he certainly would have been stoned
to death had he found a willing partner. Even in the first case, his
victim would have suffered some punishment because she allowed it to
happen.

 MvdV> It is only in US America with their retarded conceptions about sex
 MvdV> that LEO's lay traps for people from other countries to lure them
 MvdV> into asituation where they can be arrested for intent to have sex
 MvdV> with a fourteen year old.

Wrong. You're showing your ignorance in spite of yourself. It happens all
over the world.

                R\%/itt

Joy lives in the fight, in the attempt, in the suffering involved, not in
the victory itself.

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