Text 34265, 87 rader
Skriven 2009-07-05 07:25:36 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 34221 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Saberi vs Blom
======================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Saturday July 04 2009 at 14:41:

MV>>> Dimitri Sklyaraov was invited for a conference in the US and
MV>>> arrested for doing just that.

RB>> He was _not_ arrested for attending the conference, Michiel.

MV> Didn't say he was.

"was invited for a conference in the US and arrested for doing just that"

MV> He was arrested for reverse engineering and circumventing limitations.

I know.

MV>>> You can say that the US does not enforce their laws outside US
MV>>> territory but the facts are different.

RB>> Michiel, what you describe is nothing new and nothing specific to the
RB>> States. I already told you about the American neo-Nazi who was
RB>> invited to Denmark, arrested there and extradited to Germany for his
RB>> actions in the States.

MV> I know, but two wrongs do not make a right. Luring foreignres to one's
MV> jursidiction and prosecuting them for something that is not illegal in
MV> the country where they did it, is plain wrong.

"Luring"? He was invited and came voluntarily. "Not illegal"? Russia has laws,
too, and hacking other people's software is a no-no even there. The only
problem is getting anyone to do anything about it - a bribe doubtless helps,
but you have to know the right person.

RB>> The basis for his arrest, incidentally, was that his inflammatory
RB>> website was available in Germany over the Internet.

MV> Lame excuse.

Valid reason.

MV> If you do not like it that others exert their right of free speech
MV> over the Internet, then do not make use of the internet. If you do use
MV> the intermet, take the liabilities with the assets.

I suspect there are similar things in the Netherlands, as in quite a number of
other countries.

RB>> The main point is that persons who carry out an activity that is
RB>> legal where they live have no immunity against prosecution when they
RB>> travel to a country where the action is illegal.

MV> Which is wrong.

Maybe, but "them's the facts".

RB>> Owning one in a foreign country, assuming that could be proven in the
RB>> first place, is not illegal even for a European.

MV> Indeed it is not, but we can change the law...

And get the charge thrown out the first time the law is challenged in court.

MV>>> Same with Dimitri Sklyaraov. His hacking activities took place in
MV>>> Russia, but he was nevertheless arrested in the US over it.

RB>> My memory is that he hacked programs or systems of American
RB>> companies.

MV> It was American software, (Adobe). AFAIK the systems that he worked on
MV> were in Russia.

Which has no bearing on the fact that he hacked American software. That
automatically gave the Americans jurisdiction the minute he set foot on
American soil. He should have stuck to Russian software or stayed in Russia.

RB>> Although I agree the tendency exists - see some of the stuff Roy
RB>> writes - I still think you've picked bad examples to defend.

MV> Bad examples or not, it is one of the reasons, I will not accept
MV> invitations to go to the USA.

Now, don't tell me you're hacking American software or writing sexy messages to
little American girls and boys? ;-))

Cheers, Bob

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