Text 7808, 187 rader
Skriven 2006-10-31 04:21:38 av Maurice Kinal (1:140/13.1)
   Kommentar till text 7799 av James Bradley (1:134/77.0)
Ärende: ttylinux
================
Hey James!

Oct 30 18:01 06, James Bradley wrote to Maurice Kinal:

 JB> One still has to work within the confines of the technology 
 JB> available.

To some degree that is true.  However I was cursed from birth with this strange
idea that most limitations are either self imposed or by the others who for
whatever reason feel it is their duty to crush the imagination of their fellow
human beings.  Like all good curses they are impossible to ignore or overcome
so I surrendered to it and here I am today still cursed but at least not by
floppies, CDs, or any other silly thingy that causes me any more grief then the
curse itself.

 JB> When there was no optical medium to speak of, streaming 
 JB> tape was prevalent. Because they are not perfect, doesn't make me 
 JB> want to toss the baby out in the bathwater.

I have no tapes.  I used to use them but never on anything I ever owned.  I did
briefly play with one my cousin accidently stumbled across and that was a nice
distraction for awhile (it worked).  Tapes were too expensive so it never went
too far.  I don't mind them but defietnly not practical or economical around
here.

 JB> I ask, when you indoctrinate a new subject, with only a low level 
 JB> format on the HD, how do you get the OS into them?

Currently by using usb for hotswapping regular drives and then plugging them
into the targetted machine and booting it up.  

Doesn't everybody?  ;-)

 JB> A) You don't own a 
 JB> bootable CDROM, or the drive they go into,

Correct.  I have a couple sitting in a box and they probably work but it
doesn't matter anymore.  Also the DVD-ROM I took out to replace with a HD
instead.  Far more useful for sure.

 JB> B) There are 
 JB> "tamper-proof" screws on the case, and you don't have a device that 
 JB> can circumvent them at hand,

Ah!  Yeah I don't have that problem.

 JB> C) Floppies are out of the question,

Right.  A nonissue here as well.

 JB> D) The USB port is not bootable.

Doesn't have to be.  I've always had a running system to work from so
bootabillty isn't a requirement until placed in the target.

 JB> You're buggered by your principles!

Nope.  You might be though.  Not me.  I can prove it too.
 
 JB> Unless osmosis works, you have no way to get your OS into it.

I have a number of ways that no longer require floppies (at least five years
now), CDs (a couple of years), and now no DVDs although none of them were
really ever required.  I've always had a spare HD with a bootable system on it
for about 10 years now so there was really no need to rely on any extra
bootable devices even if they were onboard and working.

 JB> both know you only have to get a drill on the job, and you can pop 
 JB> the screws off in no time, but if someone wanted me to look at their 
 JB> HP/Compaq/Dell/ad nauseam in a timely fashoin, I couldn't be bothered 
 JB> to slave a second drive into the thing, and leave that fancy 
 JB> engineering, in the form of convoluted catches, sliders, and clips.

I hear ya.  None of those here at the moment so it isn't a problem.  The last
three systems have all been custom made with my needs in mind. 
HP/Compaq/Dell/ad nauseam never got a say or any meaningful influence.
 
 JB> Pop a CD in the mouth, and be done by noon.

Yeah that can work.  I prefer just making the target's drive bootable without
any extra media.

 JB> Am I missing something fundamental?

Probably not.  However I like to do things different so fundamentals aren't
usually my cup of tea.  To each his own, no?

 JB> out of pocket, I usually get great satisfaction, and stress relief 
 JB> from the old "heave_ho" function.

Oh yeah!  Gotta love it!

 JB> Ignoring the USB bootable option,

It doesn't have to be bootable.  That is just a bonus when it does work.

 JB> ...Which prevents it from booting, until the stick is removed.

Huh?  Once booted it can be safely removed.  I am not sure if we're on the same
page here.

 JB>> Thinking out loud: I could likely use the rack-mount Dell hot-swap 
 JB>> SCSI to accept an image, but when all is said and done, I think that 
 JB>> would best be left to the "More said than done, the better." 

Or just get one working and use that to flash the rest off the usb.  All that
is needed is a usb->ide cable and they are readily available.  You don't have
to reboot the main system for this to work and you end up with a bootable drive
ready to be installed into any target.  SCSI ones would be a problem if no
hotswappable SCSI controller.  In that case I would probably use a CD but if
only doing up one or two systems.  How many of these do you have?

 JB> change back to drive "0"... I *must* be missing something. <?> Even 
 JB> IDE doesn't streamline that much.

Okay I think I am beginning to see where you are going.  As far as initrd's are
concerned they are bootable no matter what changes since they are loaded into
ram and don't mount a HD partition on / so whatever the drive ends up being it
makes absolutely no difference.  Partitions can be later mounted if and when
needed and thus it doesn't ever influence the bootup procedure.

Piece of cake!  ;-)

 JB> For less than fifty cents a piece, even WITH two failed attempts at 
 JB> burning a workable CD, it's worth a buck fifty to *have* the 
 JB> "inconvenience" as it is usable now across platforms, locations, and 
 JB> drive types.

Right.  Ramdisks (initrd's) are the way to go in that case since anything is
possible with the right kernel.  Everything else can be (u)mounted later and
thus a vastly flexible and dynamic system can be tweaked on the fly with no
need for reboots.

 JB> "Nothing fancy" and "Almost bland, considering some of the glossier 
 JB> distributions out now..." was fitting into my vision nicely. <L>

Amen.  I'd rather have power and flexibilty over glossy any day of the week. 
Obviously the reviewer isn't a hardcore Unixie type.  Silly people.

 JB> You need to stop using them as coasters, me thinks. <ROTF>

Yeah that would probably help.  Far more useful as coasters though.

 MK>> Not after I finished with you.  :-)

 JB> Ya, I'd be making frisbees out of CDROMs. O-8*

Maybe.  My neighbour still hasn't abandoned them but I haven't seen him pull
out any floppies for quite some time now.

Speaking of the neighbour, wireless is back up and running between us as of
today.  Works great.

 JB> Well, I'll bet that no matter how good your advice to someone, they 
 JB> will continue to ignore it, until it's about to cost them money. When 
 JB> push comes to shove, they will still take credit for your ignored 
 JB> idea. Is that part of the wager? <G>

Errr ... no.  That sounds far too familiar.

 JB> Try two Adaptecs in the same machine, and call me in the morning.

Sure.  Send them over.

 JB> I saw a beige one at a discount store, tagged at $99.

New (unused)?  That is a good price.  I'd rather have black but I am not that
fussy.

 JB> I bought my two 
 JB> for ten, IIRR. ATX PS, fans (3), mounting brackets, handles, AND one 
 JB> floppy and CDROM drive to round out the package. <G+D>

That is a steal.

 JB> I just had a "moment" that had nothing to do with the mind, but it 
 JB> sure took a strip off it, none the less. That one was a solid seven. 
 JB> I'm not so sure that it's "Better to fail from the bottom up." as 
 JB> Churchill liked to say.

That works for me.

Life is good,
Maurice

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0
 * Origin: The Pointy Stick Society XXV - Almost there (1:140/13.1)