Text 1759, 306 rader
Skriven 2005-01-04 06:19:00 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 1749 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C4F225.484E4FA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You said I didn't answer your questions, I didn't understand the =
telemarketer/telephone question because there is nothing to trust about = the
telephone since it's just a dumb device, if you mean do I trust my = phone
company then yes I do. If you are asking if I trust telemarketers = (strangers
that call me on the phone) then no I don't but I don't see = how either of
those apply to the device called a telephone.
I would NOT trust the telephone if people could remotely talk directly = to the
phone without having it ring and if it stored my recorded = conversations. Do
you see the risk difference between that and the dumb = device most people know
as a telephone today?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41da0dc7$1@w3.nls.net...
I do trust some of my phones to store info. I don't have my phone =
store the info that concerns me that businesses with whom I deal will =
protect. My computer doesn't store that either. I can ensure the = latter
because I have control of my computer and what it saves. Same = for my
telephones.
You aren't answering my questions. I suspect it is because they =
point out that you can't defend the claims you are making.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net...
But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you =
required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a =
difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it = back
whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would = that
change your view of that secure telephone?
I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to =
purchase stuff, they just have a problem (or are learning to have a = problem)
with the computer remembering too much sensitive information.
Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple =
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
I still disagree. You are mixing trust in the computer and =
trust in the content viewed with the computer. I don't trust = telemarketers
but I do not confuse that with trust of the telephone. = I'm sure you make the
latter distinction. Don't you make the former? = You have made plenty of
claims in this groups that indicate that you do.
If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in then =
you should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs. That is the = analogous
scenario. Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people = have been
exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe = land lines too.
Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement = which has a long
history of listening to phone conversations. Now my = concerns are very
different from yours. I don't fear someone listening = to me communicating a
CC number or other PII. My concern is the = business to which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information. = There are plenty of examples of this. Try
asking your bank if they can =
tell you which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
>> I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion that
your example supports it. In fact your story argues against =
your
conclusion. People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they visit
and the email they receive. If they did not many problems these =
people
encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting =
something they
should not.<<
That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not to =
trust their
computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected =
by an email
attachment.
>> When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, =
the PC is the
one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over which you =
have any
control. Even non-techical users have control as you do not =
need to
understand how things work to control them (e.g. TV). <<
There is a difference between trusting a computer like you trust =
a telephone
and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit =
card. I have
no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone =
because it's
unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with =
allowing the
telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I =
trust to be
secure with storing that sort of information.
Geo.
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C4F225.484E4FA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You said I didn't answer your =
questions, I didn't=20
understand the telemarketer/telephone question because there is nothing = to
trust=20
about the telephone since it's just a dumb device, if you mean do I = trust
my=20
phone company then yes I do. If you are asking if I trust telemarketers=20
(strangers that call me on the phone) then no I don't but I don't see = how
either=20
of those apply to the device called a telephone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would NOT trust the telephone if =
people could=20
remotely talk directly to the phone without having it ring and if = it
stored=20
my recorded conversations. Do you see the risk difference between that = and
the=20
dumb device most people know as a telephone today?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41da0dc7$1@w3.nls.net">news:41da0dc7$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I do trust some of my =
phones to=20
store info. I don't have my phone store the info that concerns =
me that=20
businesses with whom I deal will protect. My computer doesn't =
store that=20
either. I can ensure the latter because I have control of my =
computer=20
and what it saves. Same for my telephones.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You aren't answering my=20
questions. I suspect it is because they point out that you can't =
defend=20
the claims you are making.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net">news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But do you trust your telephone to =
store your=20
information or are you required to provide that information via the=20
telephone? There is a difference, if your telephone recorded your CC =
number=20
and would play it back whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit =
number=20
sequence, how would that change your view of that secure=20
telephone?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't think people have a problem =
with using=20
a computer to purchase stuff, they just have a problem (or are =
learning=20
to have a problem) with the computer remembering too much sensitive=20
information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try thinking of both the telephone =
and the=20
computer as simple communications devices, they really are quite =
similar in=20
that regard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net">news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I still =
disagree. You are=20
mixing trust in the computer and trust in the content viewed with =
the=20
computer. I don't trust telemarketers but I do not confuse =
that with=20
trust of the telephone. I'm sure you make the latter=20
distinction. Don't you make the former? You have made =
plenty=20
of claims in this groups that indicate that you do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> If you think people =
should be=20
afraid of folks listening in then you should be encouraging folks =
to fear=20
their ISPs. That is the analogous scenario. Your =
telephone=20
analogy is a bad one because people have been exploited by folks =
listening=20
in on mobile phones and maybe land lines too. Someone else =
claimed a=20
paranoid fear of law enforcement which has a long history of =
listening to=20
phone conversations. Now my concerns are very different from =
yours. I don't fear someone listening to me communicating a =
CC=20
number or other PII. My concern is the business to which I=20
communicate it doesn't protect the information. There are =
plenty of=20
examples of this. Try asking your bank if they can =
tell you=20
which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>"Rich"=20
<@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>> =20
I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion=20
that<BR>your example supports it. In fact your story =
argues=20
against your<BR>conclusion. People do trust their =
computers and=20
the web sites they visit<BR>and the email they receive. If =
they=20
did not many problems these people<BR>encounter would not exist =
as they=20
rely on the users trusting something they<BR>should=20
not.<<<BR><BR>That is what proves my point, I said people =
are=20
learning not to trust their<BR>computers, they learn this by =
getting=20
rooted or getting infected by an=20
email<BR>attachment.<BR><BR>>> When using the=20
Internet, of all the components to trust, the PC is the<BR>one =
most=20
worthy of trust as it is the only one over which you have=20
any<BR>control. Even non-techical users have control as =
you do not=20
need to<BR>understand how things work to control them =
(e.g.=20
TV). <<<BR><BR>There is a difference between =
trusting a=20
computer like you trust a telephone<BR>and trusting it like you =
would=20
trust someone with your credit card. I have<BR>no problem =
telling a=20
vendor my CC number over the telephone because it's<BR>unlikely =
someone=20
is listening in, I do have a problem with allowing =
the<BR>telephone to=20
remember my CC number because it's not a device I trust to =
be<BR>secure=20
with storing that sort of=20
=
information.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C4F225.484E4FA0--
--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
* Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)
|