Text 1976, 141 rader
Skriven 2005-01-15 20:12:02 av Ellen K. (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 1869 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================
From: Ellen K. <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com>

And that is a very big problem when trying to figure out what security features
should be built in or what functionality should be allowed.  Do we protect
users from their own stupidity?   I guess there is a
rationale for doing so in that if the masses' machines are laxly secured (if at
all), the danger to _everyone_ increases.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:07:12 -0800, "Rich" <@> wrote in message
<41e30a96@w3.nls.net>:

>   I agree there are a great many people that have no interest in or
familiarity with exercising the control available to them.  That will always be
true.
>
>Rich
>
>  "Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:7og4u0pj8f0nq10sm8t2covkac7q75oj1s@4ax.com...
>  Well, I think this conversation is all over the place regarding who we
>  are talking about when we talk about users.  The folks here are an
>  entirely different animal from the famous great unwashed masses.
>
>  On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:40:28 -0800, "Rich" <@> wrote in message
>  <41e0fbe8@w3.nls.net>:
>
>  >   Because you are in control, my point to george.
>  >
>  >Rich
>  >
>  >  "Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:qgb1u01q9d446o8qo18nepf463e0rnhi41@4ax.com...
>  >  I don't have any functionality enabled on any of my machines that would
>  >  permit the OS to remember my credit card number.
>  >
>  >  On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:40:57 -0800, "Rich" <@> wrote in message
>  >  <41da4628@w3.nls.net>:
>  >
>  >  >   The key distinction is that with the former you are in control while
with the latter the other party is.
>  >  >
>  >  >   I have plenty of examples of the latter.  The former has never been a
problem for me or anyone I know.  George hasn't given any indication it has
ever been for him.  Has it been for you?
>  >  >
>  >  >Rich
>  >  >
>  >  >  "Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:m5ekt0pm0n26m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com...
>  >  >  You and Rich are talking past each other and both of you are making
>  >  >  valid points.
>  >  >
>  >  >  I agree with you about letting the O/S remember stuff like credit card
>  >  >  numbers.
>  >  >
>  >  >  I agree with Rich about what the people to whom I freely GIVE my
credit
>  >  >  card number are doing with the information.
>  >  >
>  >  >  On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0500, "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in
>  >  >  message <41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net>:
>  >  >
>  >  >  >But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you
required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a difference,
if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it back whenever
someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would that change your
view of that secure telephone?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to purchase
stuff, they just have a problem (or are learning to have a problem) with the
computer remembering too much sensitive information.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >Geo.
>  >  >  >  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
>  >  >  >     I still disagree.  You are mixing trust in the computer and
trust in the content viewed with the computer.  I don't trust telemarketers but
I do not confuse that with trust of the telephone.  I'm sure you make the
latter distinction.  Don't you make the former?  You have made plenty of claims
in this groups that indicate that you do.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >     If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in then
you should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs.  That is the analogous
scenario.  Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people have been
exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe land lines too.
Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement which has a long
history of listening to phone conversations.  Now my concerns are very
different from yours.  I don't fear someone listening to me communicating a CC
number or other PII.  My concern is the business to which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information.  There are plenty of examples of this.   Try
asking your bank if they can tell you which of their employees has seen your
SSN and when?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  Rich
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
>  >  >  >    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
>  >  >  >    >>   I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the
suggestion that
>  >  >  >    your example supports it.  In fact your story argues against your
>  >  >  >    conclusion.  People do trust their computers and the web sites
they visit
>  >  >  >    and the email they receive.  If they did not many problems these
people
>  >  >  >    encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting
something they
>  >  >  >    should not.<<
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >    That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not to
trust their
>  >  >  >    computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected
by an email
>  >  >  >    attachment.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >    >>   When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, the
PC is the
>  >  >  >    one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over  which you
have any
>  >  >  >    control.  Even non-techical users have control as you do not need
to
>  >  >  >    understand how things work to control them  (e.g. TV).  <<
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >    There is a difference between trusting a computer like you trust
a telephone
>  >  >  >    and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit
card. I have
>  >  >  >    no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone
because it's
>  >  >  >    unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with
allowing the
>  >  >  >    telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I
trust to be
>  >  >  >    secure with storing that sort of information.
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >    Geo.

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