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Text 4840, 233 rader
Skriven 2005-06-11 16:55:50 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 4839 av Randy (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: switching employers
===============================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   Interesting but a side topic.  Despite mike miller's attempts at =
spin, I commented on where people go.  I fully expect him to continue to = make
insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of the = people
about which he is making claims.

   As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away with =
only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted.  = Google is
close.  Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are within
walking distance.

Rich

  "Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net...
  That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work =
environment?

  While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, too-they =
don't=20
  feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they aren't =
being=20
  challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they don't like =
the=20
  direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play the =
corporate=20
  political game, they may have problems with their immediate manager; =
they=20
  may have issues totally unrelated to the work....

  What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software engineering =
is not=20
  the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
  real- threat of offshoring.

  All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I have =
a SE=20
  making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and result =
out=20
  of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?

  There are now reports coming out of India where call-center personnel =
are=20
  leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
  business with companies that have outsourced to India.

  There are a lot of dynamics at play here.



  "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
  news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com...
  >
  > Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
  >
  > I agree though that they were looking for change.  The Microsoft =
people
  > who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company
  > whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's
  > just beginning.
  >
  >  /m
  >
  >
  > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
  >
  >>   Interest in google is easy to explain.  For people looking for a =
change=20
  >> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few high =
tech=20
  >> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
  >> well as Microsoft does.  In the past people have might have gone to =

  >> amazon or real or other local outfits.  During the boom many went =
to=20
  >> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of startups =
isn't as=20
  >> popular.
  >>
  >>Rich
  >>
  >>  "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
  >> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com...
  >>
  >>
  >>  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring of =
late,
  >>  and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent.  Well I =
guess
  >>  that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect to be =
paid by
  >>  the stock market.
  >>
  >>    /m
  >=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Interesting but&nbsp;a =
side=20
topic.&nbsp; Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented on = where
people=20
go.&nbsp; I fully expect him to continue to make insinuations regarding =
why=20
people go without him knowing any of the people about which he is making =

claims.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for where to go, =
someone is more=20
likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute than 1000 miles = away
and=20
being uprooted.&nbsp; Google is close.&nbsp; Some of my friends and I = joke
about=20
it because they are within walking distance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Randy" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net">news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>Th=
at=20
  could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
  environment?<BR><BR>While money may be a big part of it, there are =
other=20
  reasons, too-they don't <BR>feel their skills are being utilized to =
their=20
  fullest, they aren't being <BR>challenged, they feel they are not =
being=20
  listened to, they don't like the <BR>direction the company is being =
taken,=20
  they don't want to play the corporate <BR>political game, they may =
have=20
  problems with their immediate manager; they <BR>may have issues =
totally=20
  unrelated to the work....<BR><BR>What I think you are seeing is the =
fact that=20
  now software engineering is not <BR>the glamour job it used to be, =
thanks in=20
  no small part to the perceived -or <BR>real- threat of =
offshoring.<BR><BR>All=20
  other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I have a =
SE=20
  <BR>making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
  <BR>of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?<BR><BR>There are now =
reports=20
  coming out of India where call-center personnel are <BR>leaving in =
high=20
  numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers transacting <BR>business =
with=20
  companies that have outsourced to India.<BR><BR>There are a lot of =
dynamics at=20
  play here.<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Mike '/m'" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com">news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
  Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I =
agree=20
  though that they were looking for change.&nbsp; The Microsoft =
people<BR>&gt;=20
  who went to Google were looking for a change, from a stagnant =
company<BR>&gt;=20
  whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing company =
that's<BR>&gt;=20
  just beginning.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; /m<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On =
Fri, 10=20
  Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" &lt;@&gt;=20
  wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Interest in google is easy to=20
  explain.&nbsp; For people looking for a change <BR>&gt;&gt; but do not =
want to=20
  uproot themselves and move there are few high tech <BR>&gt;&gt; =
businesses in=20
  the area particularly those that treat there employees as <BR>&gt;&gt; =
well as=20
  Microsoft does.&nbsp; In the past people have might have gone to =
<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  amazon or real or other local outfits.&nbsp; During the boom many went =
to=20
  <BR>&gt;&gt; startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups=20
  isn't as <BR>&gt;&gt;=20
  popular.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Rich<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; =
"Mike '/m'"=20
  &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
  <BR>&gt;&gt; <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com">news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt=
;&nbsp;=20
  Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems hiring of=20
  late,<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; and Google becoming the destination for =
Microsoft=20
  talent.&nbsp; Well I guess<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; that happens when you've =
trained=20
  your workforce to expect to be paid by<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; the stock=20
  market.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /m<BR>&gt;=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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