Text 5461, 462 rader
Skriven 2005-06-27 19:54:12 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 5454 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
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My computer isn't infected because I don't allow a 15 year old to use = it. So
if you had a 15 year old there who shared your computer with you, = how would
you keep it safe? Obviously you can't trust a child to read = warning boxes and
assuming it's a male child the Jennifer Lopez thing is = going to be pretty
tempting once those hormones kick in... Also a 15 = year old is probably going
to know more about the family computer than = his parents so a setting to "not
allow potentially dangerous = attachments" isn't going to be worth squat.
Where is the parental lock?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net...
Disabled no. Ignore, yes. If it wasn't under your control your =
computers would all be infected, right? Are they? If not, why not?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net...
Do you believe all the people or at least most of the people getting =
infected in this manner today have disabled the new safety features = designed
to protect them? Somehow I don't think you of all people would = think that. So
if not, then how are they getting infected?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net...
Yes it does speak volumes about the real world. Most people do =
not think like you are care about the thinks you care about regardless = of
whether or not you think they should. Unfortunately, many are easily = tricked
into taking actions against their own interest. That is what is = described in
the lead in to the article that triggered this thread.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bef565@w3.nls.net...
No I'm not giving up, just admitting that the latest versions =
don't suffer from the same UI flaws of previous versions. But the fact = that
so many people are still being fooled by this crap speaks volumes = about the
real world.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net...
Now you give up on making false claims about safe and =
unsafe attachments. Are you incapable of admiting you are wrong?
Are you trying to suggest that someone that downloads a ZIP =
file, opens that file, opens something from that file, and then still = ignores
the warning about it being unsafe should blame any unwanted = consequences on
whom, you? How often do you infect yourself this way?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net...
not if it's in a zip file.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net...
To try to fool the few people like you that ignore all =
the other signs. When OE is configured to allow unsafe file types it =
displays the .scr extension even for the long path. It also displays = the
appropriate icon which for the example you give is an application = icon not a
JPEG icon. Outlook and OE still block it or warn about it = depending on
settings. =20
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net...
You don't believe the current UI with the way it =
displays an icon has had an effect?
Why then do email virus use such long attachment names?
Sheep.jpg =
.scr
explain that.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net...
The icons reflect the icons elsewhere in the UI. I =
believe this makes sense and do not believe that this UI consistency = makes
users more likely to make bad choices.
File extensions being hidden or not, and they are =
not on file attachments, is not the issue. I realize that this is a = topic
you like to whine about because you believe that your preference = is right for
everyone. Do you really believe the the clueless that = ignore warnings would
pay attention to this? This is all moot given = that unsafe email attachments
are blocked and the article was describing = people downloading from the web
not opening an attachment.
As for your claim to show a difference, this =
happens in a very obvious way. Users are warned about dangerous files = and
not warned about safe ones. The problem is that many ignore the = warnings.
This is the topic discussed in the email to which you replied = and one which
you completely ignored in your reply.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net...
The answer is very simple, instead of hiding =
dangerous attachments, show the users that these are somehow different = from
other attachments, something as simple as changing the icon to a = skull and
crossbones. To make it so that profession users can't open an = attachment
without an exchange server is just plain rude.
The problem is MS has spent recent history trying to =
hide file extensions from the users, so now we have a bunch of clueless = users
when it comes to telling which file types are safe and which are = not.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42be015f@w3.nls.net...
I don't see an easy answer. The issue is not =
that users are warned when there is no reason too, it's that they got = lucky.
A better analogy than a combination lock is Russian roulette. = It's always
dangerous which is why there is a warning. What would you = do?
On a related note, how do you make a user that =
just wants things to "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if = he
makes another choice to care about such choices? You can remove the = choice
which is the position taken with Outlook and dangerous = attachments. There
were plenty that complained including folks here = when that happened.
Rich
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My computer isn't infected because I =
don't allow a=20
15 year old to use it. So if you had a 15 year old there who shared your =
computer with you, how would you keep it safe? Obviously you can't trust = a
child=20
to read warning boxes and assuming it's a male child the Jennifer Lopez = thing
is=20
going to be pretty tempting once those hormones kick in... Also a 15 = year old
is=20
probably going to know more about the family computer than his parents = so
a=20
setting to "not allow potentially dangerous attachments" isn't going to = be
worth=20
squat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Where is the parental =
lock?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net">news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Disabled no. =
Ignore,=20
yes. If it wasn't under your control your computers would all be =
infected, right? Are they? If not, why not?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you believe all the people or at =
least most=20
of the people getting infected in this manner today have disabled =
the new=20
safety features designed to protect them? Somehow I don't think you =
of all=20
people would think that. So if not, then how are they getting=20
infected?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net">news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Yes it does speak =
volumes about=20
the real world. Most people do not think like you are care =
about the=20
thinks you care about regardless of whether or not you think they=20
should. Unfortunately, many are easily tricked into taking =
actions=20
against their own interest. That is what is described in the =
lead in=20
to the article that triggered this thread.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef565@w3.nls.net">news:42bef565@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No I'm not giving up, just =
admitting that=20
the latest versions don't suffer from the same UI flaws of =
previous=20
versions. But the fact that so many people are still being =
fooled by=20
this crap speaks volumes about the real world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net">news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Now you give up =
on making=20
false claims about safe and unsafe attachments. Are you=20
incapable of admiting you are wrong?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Are you trying =
to suggest=20
that someone that downloads a ZIP file, opens that file, opens =
something from that file, and then still ignores the warning =
about it=20
being unsafe should blame any unwanted consequences on whom,=20
you? How often do you infect yourself this =
way?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net">news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not if it's in a zip =
file.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net">news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> To try to =
fool the few=20
people like you that ignore all the other signs. =
When OE is=20
configured to allow unsafe file types it displays=20
the .scr extension even for the long path. =
It also=20
displays the appropriate icon which for the example you =
give is an=20
application icon not a JPEG icon. Outlook and OE =
still block=20
it or warn about it depending on settings. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You don't believe the =
current UI=20
with the way it displays an icon has had an =
effect?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why then do email virus =
use such=20
long attachment names?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Sheep.jpg &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
&=
nbsp; =20
.scr</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>explain =
that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net">news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The =
icons reflect=20
the icons elsewhere in the UI. I believe this =
makes=20
sense and do not believe that this UI consistency =
makes users=20
more likely to make bad choices.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> File =
extensions=20
being hidden or not, and they are not on file =
attachments, is=20
not the issue. I realize that this is a topic =
you like=20
to whine about because you believe that your =
preference is=20
right for everyone. Do you really believe the =
the=20
clueless that ignore warnings would pay attention to=20
this? This is all moot given that unsafe email=20
attachments are blocked and the article was describing =
people=20
downloading from the web not opening an=20
attachment.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> As for =
your claim to=20
show a difference, this happens in a very obvious =
way. =20
Users are warned about dangerous files and not warned =
about=20
safe ones. The problem is that many ignore the=20
warnings. This is the topic discussed in the =
email to=20
which you replied and one which you completely ignored =
in your=20
reply.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net">news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The answer is very =
simple,=20
instead of hiding dangerous attachments, show the =
users that=20
these are somehow different from other attachments,=20
something as simple as changing the icon to a skull =
and=20
crossbones. To make it so that profession users =
can't open=20
an attachment without an exchange server is just =
plain=20
rude.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem is MS =
has spent=20
recent history trying to hide file extensions =
from the=20
users, so now we have a bunch of clueless users when =
it=20
comes to telling which file types are safe and which =
are=20
not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I =
don't see an=20
easy answer. The issue is not that =
users=20
are warned when there is no reason too, it's =
that=20
they got lucky. A better analogy than a =
combination=20
lock is Russian roulette. It's always =
dangerous=20
which is why there is a warning. =
</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>What would you =
do?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> On a =
related=20
note, how do you make a user that just wants =
things to=20
"work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if =
he makes=20
another choice to care about such choices? =
You can=20
remove the choice which is the position taken with =
Outlook=20
and dangerous attachments. There were plenty =
that=20
complained including folks here when that=20
happened.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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