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Text 5462, 664 rader
Skriven 2005-06-28 09:55:02 av Rich (1:379/45)
     Kommentar till en text av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   You are all over the map as I expected.  You complain that you can =
open attachments even with a bold warning and at the same time complain = that
you can't.  Why do you believe that users susceptible to social = tricks like
tempting pictures or better still those that as instructed = saved a password
protected ZIP file, opened it with a supplied password, = extracted a file, and
ran it are going to be stopped by a checkbox?

Rich

  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42c0f02d@w3.nls.net...
  Of course it's the users being exploited with tricks like tempting =
pictures.

  What I'm saying is that the email programs allowing users to just =
click on an icon in an email to open an attachment, and then allowing = that
attachment to run (even with an annoying dialog box) and then = allowing it to
run with permissions great enough to change the system or = install software,
is where the problem is.

  I thought outlook stopping the attachment from even showing up if it =
was executable was a GREAT solution, the only fault I had with it was = that it
didn't have a hard to find off switch but instead required an = exchange server
to disable it. And the disabled mode should allow only = saving to disk not
execution. (now if they would just do that for OE)

  Geo.
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42c0d228@w3.nls.net...
       So you are saying that infections are due to the users and this =
is why you or I do not become infected running the same software that = others
do when they get trashed.  I could agree with this.  You though = are all over
the map.  Tomorrow you will claim it is because you are = unable to distinguish
between your computer and everything else or = remind us all that you have
never see a warning message and the yellow = icon that is standard.

       As for what I do, I suggest that my friends and family create =
separate Windows XP accounts for their children that are limited user =
accounts not adminstrator accounts and that they avoid any software that =
doesn't work with this.  I also suggest that they do the same for = themselves
and use a separate administrator account only when necessary. =
 My suggestion to you is the same.

       The kids of relevance to me are younger than fifteen.  =
Attachments are not and have never been a problem.  In fact all the = instances
I can remember where attachments were an issue have been with = adults
exercising poor judgement.  The problem with children is that = they download
crap like kazaa or some slimey game they came across.  = Either way, running as
a limited user allows a foolish user to trash his = own account without
trashing the machine.

    Rich

      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42c0920f$1@w3.nls.net...
      My computer isn't infected because I don't allow a 15 year old to =
use it. So if you had a 15 year old there who shared your computer with = you,
how would you keep it safe? Obviously you can't trust a child to = read warning
boxes and assuming it's a male child the Jennifer Lopez = thing is going to be
pretty tempting once those hormones kick in... Also = a 15 year old is probably
going to know more about the family computer = than his parents so a setting to
"not allow potentially dangerous = attachments" isn't going to be worth squat.

      Where is the parental lock?

      Geo.
        "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net...
           Disabled no.  Ignore, yes.  If it wasn't under your control =
your computers would all be infected, right?  Are they?  If not, why = not?

        Rich

          "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net...
          Do you believe all the people or at least most of the people =
getting infected in this manner today have disabled the new safety = features
designed to protect them? Somehow I don't think you of all = people would think
that. So if not, then how are they getting infected?

          Geo.
            "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net...
               Yes it does speak volumes about the real world.  Most =
people do not think like you are care about the thinks you care about =
regardless of whether or not you think they should.  Unfortunately, many = are
easily tricked into taking actions against their own interest.  That = is what
is described in the lead in to the article that triggered this = thread.

            Rich


              "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bef565@w3.nls.net...
              No I'm not giving up, just admitting that the latest =
versions don't suffer from the same UI flaws of previous versions. But = the
fact that so many people are still being fooled by this crap speaks = volumes
about the real world.

              Geo.
                "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net...
                   Now you give up on making false claims about safe and =
unsafe attachments.  Are you incapable of admiting you are wrong?

                   Are you trying to suggest that someone that downloads =
a ZIP file, opens that file, opens something from that file, and then = still
ignores the warning about it being unsafe should blame any = unwanted
consequences on whom, you?  How often do you infect yourself = this way?

                Rich

                  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net...
                  not if it's in a zip file.
                    "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net...
                       To try to fool the few people like you that =
ignore all the other signs.  When OE is configured to allow unsafe file = types
it displays the .scr extension even for the long path.  It also = displays the
appropriate icon which for the example you give is an = application icon not a
JPEG icon.  Outlook and OE still block it or warn = about it depending on
settings. =20

                    Rich

                      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net...
                      You don't believe the current UI with the way it =
displays an icon has had an effect?

                      Why then do email virus use such long attachment =
names?

                      Sheep.jpg                                          =
                                                   .scr

                      explain that.

                      Geo.
                        "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net...
                           The icons reflect the icons elsewhere in the =
UI.  I believe this makes sense and do not believe that this UI = consistency
makes users more likely to make bad choices.

                           File extensions being hidden or not, and they =
are not on file attachments, is not the issue.  I realize that this is a =
topic you like to whine about because you believe that your preference = is
right for everyone.  Do you really believe the the clueless that = ignore
warnings would pay attention to this?  This is all moot given = that unsafe
email attachments are blocked and the article was describing = people
downloading from the web not opening an attachment.

                           As for your claim to show a difference, this =
happens in a very obvious way.  Users are warned about dangerous files = and
not warned about safe ones.  The problem is that many ignore the = warnings. 
This is the topic discussed in the email to which you replied = and one which
you completely ignored in your reply.

                        Rich

                          "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net...
                          The answer is very simple, instead of hiding =
dangerous attachments, show the users that these are somehow different = from
other attachments, something as simple as changing the icon to a = skull and
crossbones. To make it so that profession users can't open an = attachment
without an exchange server is just plain rude.

                          The problem is MS has spent recent history =
trying to hide file extensions from the users, so now we have a bunch of =
clueless users when it comes to telling which file types are safe and = which
are not.

                          Geo.
                            "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42be015f@w3.nls.net...
                               I don't see an easy answer.  The issue is =
not that users are warned when there is no reason too, it's that they = got
lucky.  A better analogy than a combination lock is Russian = roulette.  It's
always dangerous which is why there is a warning.  What = would you do?

                               On a related note, how do you make a user =
that just wants things to "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" = if
he makes another choice to care about such choices?  You can remove = the
choice which is the position taken with Outlook and dangerous = attachments. 
There were plenty that complained including folks here = when that happened.

                            Rich

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You are all over the map =
as I=20
expected.&nbsp; You complain that you can open attachments even with a =
bold=20
warning and at the same time complain that you can't.&nbsp; Why do you =
believe=20
that users susceptible to social tricks like tempting pictures or better =
still=20
those that as instructed saved a password protected ZIP file, opened it = with
a=20
supplied password, extracted a file, and ran it are going to be stopped = by
a=20
checkbox?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42c0f02d@w3.nls.net">news:42c0f02d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course it's the users being =
exploited with=20
  tricks like tempting pictures.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What I'm saying is that the email =
programs=20
  allowing users to just click on an icon in an email to open an =
attachment, and=20
  then allowing that attachment to run (even with an annoying dialog =
box) and=20
  then allowing it to run with permissions great enough to change the =
system or=20
  install software, is where the problem is.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought outlook stopping the =
attachment from=20
  even showing up if it was executable was a GREAT solution, the only =
fault I=20
  had with it was that it didn't have a hard to find off switch but =
instead=20
  required an exchange server to disable it. And the disabled mode =
should allow=20
  only saving to disk not execution. (now if they would just do that for =

  OE)</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42c0d228@w3.nls.net">news:42c0d228@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; So you are saying that =
infections=20
    are due to the users and this is why you or I do not become infected =
running=20
    the same software that others do when they get trashed.&nbsp; I =
could agree=20
    with this.&nbsp; You though are all over the map.&nbsp; Tomorrow you =
will=20
    claim it is because you are unable to distinguish between your =
computer and=20
    everything else or remind us all that you have never see a warning =
message=20
    and the yellow icon that is standard.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for what I do, I =
suggest that=20
    my friends and family create separate Windows XP accounts for their =
children=20
    that are limited user accounts not adminstrator accounts and that =
they avoid=20
    any software that doesn't work with this.&nbsp; I also suggest that =
they do=20
    the same for themselves and use a separate administrator account =
only when=20
    necessary.&nbsp; My suggestion to you is the same.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The kids of relevance =
to me are=20
    younger than fifteen.&nbsp; Attachments are not and have never been =
a=20
    problem.&nbsp; In fact all the instances I can remember where =
attachments=20
    were an issue have been with adults exercising poor judgement.&nbsp; =
The=20
    problem with children is that they download crap like kazaa or some =
slimey=20
    game they came across.&nbsp; Either way, running as a limited user =
allows a=20
    foolish user to trash his own account without trashing the=20
    machine.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
      wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42c0920f$1@w3.nls.net">news:42c0920f$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My computer isn't infected =
because I don't=20
      allow a 15 year old to use it. So if you had a 15 year old there =
who=20
      shared your computer with you, how would you keep it safe? =
Obviously you=20
      can't trust a child to read warning boxes and assuming it's a male =
child=20
      the Jennifer Lopez thing is going to be pretty tempting once those =

      hormones kick in... Also a 15 year old is probably going to know =
more=20
      about the family computer than his parents so a setting to "not =
allow=20
      potentially dangerous attachments" isn't going to be worth=20
      squat.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Where is the parental =
lock?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net">news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Disabled no.&nbsp; =
Ignore,=20
        yes.&nbsp; If it wasn't under your control your computers would =
all be=20
        infected, right?&nbsp; Are they?&nbsp; If not, why =
not?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
          href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
          <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you believe all the people =
or at least=20
          most of the people getting infected in this manner today have =
disabled=20
          the new safety features designed to protect them? Somehow I =
don't=20
          think you of all people would think that. So if not, then how =
are they=20
          getting infected?</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net">news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes it does =
speak volumes=20
            about the real world.&nbsp; Most people do not think like =
you are=20
            care about the thinks you care about regardless of whether =
or not=20
            you think they should.&nbsp; Unfortunately, many are easily =
tricked=20
            into taking actions against their own interest.&nbsp; That =
is what=20
            is described in the lead in to the article that triggered =
this=20
            thread.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
            style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
              href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
              message <A=20
              =
href=3D"news:42bef565@w3.nls.net">news:42bef565@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No I'm not giving up, =
just admitting=20
              that the latest versions don't suffer from the same UI =
flaws of=20
              previous versions. But the fact that so many people are =
still=20
              being fooled by this crap speaks volumes about the real=20
              world.</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
              style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                =
href=3D"news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net">news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Now you =
give up on=20
                making false claims about safe and unsafe =
attachments.&nbsp; Are=20
                you incapable of admiting you are wrong?</FONT></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Are you =
trying to=20
                suggest that someone that downloads a ZIP file, opens =
that file,=20
                opens something from that file, and then still ignores =
the=20
                warning about it being unsafe should blame any unwanted=20
                consequences on whom, you?&nbsp; How often do you infect =

                yourself this way?</FONT></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
                  =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote in=20
                  message <A=20
                  =
href=3D"news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net">news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not if it's in a zip=20
                  file.</FONT></DIV>
                  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                    =
href=3D"news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net">news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; To try =
to fool the=20
                    few people like you that ignore all the other =
signs.&nbsp;=20
                    When OE is configured to allow unsafe file types it =
displays=20
                    the&nbsp;.scr&nbsp;extension even for the long =
path.&nbsp;=20
                    It also displays the appropriate icon which for the =
example=20
                    you give is an application icon not a JPEG =
icon.&nbsp;=20
                    Outlook and OE still block it or warn about it =
depending on=20
                    settings.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
                    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
                      =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
                      wrote in message <A=20
                      =
href=3D"news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You don't believe =
the current=20
                      UI with the way it displays an icon has had an=20
                      effect?</FONT></DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why then do email =
virus use=20
                      such long attachment names?</FONT></DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
                      =
size=3D2>Sheep.jpg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
                      .scr</FONT></DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>explain =
that.</FONT></DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
                      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                        <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                        =
href=3D"news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net">news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
The icons=20
                        reflect the icons elsewhere in the UI.&nbsp; I =
believe=20
                        this makes sense and do not believe that this UI =

                        consistency makes users more likely to make bad=20
                        choices.</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
File=20
                        extensions being hidden or not, and they are not =
on file=20
                        attachments, is not the issue.&nbsp; I realize =
that this=20
                        is a topic you like to whine about because you =
believe=20
                        that your preference is right for =
everyone.&nbsp; Do you=20
                        really believe the the clueless that ignore =
warnings=20
                        would pay attention to this?&nbsp; This is all =
moot=20
                        given that unsafe email attachments are blocked =
and the=20
                        article was describing people downloading from =
the web=20
                        not opening an attachment.</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As =
for your=20
                        claim to show a difference, this happens in a =
very=20
                        obvious way.&nbsp; Users are warned about =
dangerous=20
                        files and not warned about safe ones.&nbsp; The =
problem=20
                        is that many ignore the warnings.&nbsp; This is =
the=20
                        topic discussed in the email to which you =
replied and=20
                        one which you completely ignored in your=20
                        reply.</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                          <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
                          =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
                          wrote in message <A=20
                          =
href=3D"news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net">news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The answer is =
very=20
                          simple, instead of hiding dangerous =
attachments, show=20
                          the users that these are somehow different =
from other=20
                          attachments, something as simple as changing =
the icon=20
                          to a skull and crossbones. To make it so that=20
                          profession users can't open an attachment =
without an=20
                          exchange server is just plain =
rude.</FONT></DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem =
is MS has=20
                          spent recent history trying to hide=20
                          file&nbsp;extensions from the users, so now we =
have a=20
                          bunch of clueless users when it comes to =
telling which=20
                          file types are safe and which are =
not.</FONT></DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
                          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px">
                            <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                            =
href=3D"news:42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't=20
                            see an easy answer.&nbsp;&nbsp;The issue =
is&nbsp;not=20
                            that users are warned when&nbsp;there is no =
reason=20
                            too, it's that they got lucky.&nbsp; A =
better=20
                            analogy than a combination lock is Russian=20
                            roulette.&nbsp; It's always dangerous which =
is why=20
                            there is a warning.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
                            size=3D2>What would you do?</FONT></DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; On a=20
                            related note, how do you make a user that =
just wants=20
                            things to "work" and clicks OK because it =
doesn't=20
                            "work" if he makes another choice to care =
about such=20
                            choices?&nbsp; You can remove the choice =
which is=20
                            the position taken with Outlook and =
dangerous=20
                            attachments.&nbsp; There were plenty that =
complained=20
                            including folks here when that=20
happened.</FONT></DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
                          =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
HTML>

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