Text 8034, 244 rader
Skriven 2005-01-26 05:57:35 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
Kommentar till text 7999 av Darryl Perry (1:106/324)
Ärende: Re: Believing
=====================
25 Jan 05 14:26, Darryl Perry wrote to John Hull:
DP> On 01-25-05, John Hull said...
JH>> 24 Jan 05 23:35, Darryl Perry wrote to John Hull:
JH>> DP> Ok. That's all well and good, John, but it's not solely a
JH>> DP> 'DNC' phenomenon. If what you are saying that the Dems
JH>> DP> pioneered, then the took the ball and ran with it. NPR was
JH>> DP> reporting that anybody that h even the slightest bit of
JH>> DP> paraphanalia that opposed GWB, they were no permitted from
JH>> DP> attending any of the local whistle-stop gatherings for Bush.
JH>> DP> As you know, many of the campaign layovers occured virtually
JH>> DP> n door to one another as the weeks wore on. Many locals could
JH>> DP> in fact both candidates in person. They were reporting that
JH>> DP> if somebody had attended a Kerry gathering and was wearing a
JH>> DP> Kerry shirt, or even an Clinton sticker on their car, then
JH>> DP> they were barred from access.
JH>>
JH>> That's a lot of media BS. I attended some of those rallies, and
JH>> so did ma of the people in this echo. I never saw any such blatant
JH>> behavior, and I they didn't either. MOST of the carping about
JH>> being turned away is coming from people who didn't want to follow
JH>> the security control procedures set to protect the president from
JH>> the numerous threats he received. The Secre Service was taking no
JH>> chances at all, and anybody that even looked crossey at Bush was
JH>> gathered up and checked out - just as they should be. That is
JH>> their job, but you'd never know that if you relied on the media to
JH>> tell yo about it.
DP> Being that I live in the Great State of Texas, which was not one
DP> of the
DP> battle ground states, I did not have a lot of chances, if any to
DP> be able to
DP> see either of the candidates in person like you were so lucky to
DP> have done.
DP> However, my only other option was to rely on the media to find out
DP> what it
DP> was like. While they showed alot of stuff from both camps, the
DP> overwelming
DP> majority of items coming from the RNC camp was the same stuff that
DP> you can
DP> find on their website. That's the point I'm trying to make.
DP> While you can
DP> argue up and down and six ways of sunday the the Dems feed talking
DP> points to
DP> their constituants, it is clearly apparent that the RNC does that
DP> as well.
JH>> DP> They would go on to have soundbytes of many of the attendees
JH>> DP> of these gatherings and it was all the same thing. "Kerry's
JH>> DP> a flip-flopper", "Kerry is a tax and spend liberal", "Kerry
JH>> DP> is soft on defense".
JH>>
JH>> He WAS a flip-flopper. His record proved it. His own campaign
JH>> staff has admitted it since the election. "Tax and spend liberal"
JH>> is campaign rheto nothing more. However, it hardly compares to the
JH>> Dems calling Republicans "right wing radicals" as if we were
JH>> Marxists or something. And, finally, Kerry WAS soft on defense,
JH>> and his voting record in the senate proves it, to mention some of
JH>> the things he said during the campaign.
DP> Kerry's record was given a deliberate spin by the RNC in order to
DP> justify the
DP> labels given to him. I don't believe that the Republicans calling
DP> Dems
DP> 'leftists' or liberals or left-wing liberals is any kinder, yet it
DP> happens
DP> quite often, in here and other places.
JH>> JH>> DP> into the ideas thrown around here by many
JH>> JH>> DP> conservatives. What I can' abide by is liars and
JH>> JH>> DP> deception, and spin. The media and the RNC and it's
JH>> JH>> DP> members are highly skilled at all th
JH>>
JH>> JH>> DP> It is for this reason that can't abide by GWB, because
JH>> JH>> DP> he seems me to embody all those traits
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> There have been a number of books written by prominent
JH>> JH>> journalists, most o whom are liberals and/or Democrats
JH>> JH>> detailing the bias toward the left in t major media outlets.
JH>> JH>> A study done right after the 2nd Clinton election fo that
JH>> JH>> 90% of reporters are left leaning. That hasn't changed one
JH>> JH>> bit, and anything, its worse today. There has been a lot of
JH>> JH>> discussion about it th last cycle - how can you have missed
JH>> JH>> it?
JH>>
JH>> DP> Prolly because every time I turned on the news I saw Bush
JH>> DP> citing the same old RNC talking points that I had heard the
JH>> DP> day before. The
JH>> news
JH>> DP> kept giving that same stuff the air time. I watched and kept
JH>> DP> track, noticed that Bush was getting far and away the most
JH>> DP> air time. I hear
JH>>
JH>> DP> from morning zoo radio shows, and afternoon DJ's. With that
JH>> DP> kind of coverage, it's hard for me to believe that the media
JH>> DP> is 'left leaning
JH>>
JH>> What you saw was Bush and his people staying on message and
JH>> talking about issues, articulating what Bush wanted to accomplish
JH>> in the next four years
DP> No; it was like those morning zoo's and the DJ's were plugged in
DP> to the RNC
DP> mothership. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that the
DP> DNC feeds
DP> talking points to it's people without opening yourself up to the
DP> fact that
DP> the RNC does exactly what you say the DNC does.
JH>> On the major TV networks, Kerry got the most face time, except for
JH>> FoxNews which was pretty evenly divided. Toward the end, however,
JH>> the media sort turned on Kerry and began to question some of what
JH>> he was saying, but that Kerry's own fault - another thing that his
JH>> people have admitted after the fact. The media has it own agenda
JH>> which coincides most of the time with t left as far as ideology
JH>> goes, but like sharks, if they sense blood in the water they will
JH>> turn on their own in a microsecond. Kerry shot himself in foot
JH>> numerous times during the campaign, and that is what the press
JH>> reacte to.
JH>> JH>> There's a big difference between talking about the issues,
JH>> JH>> and telling som the most scurrilous lies I've ever heard.
JH>> JH>> Remember when Gore's people put ads in Missouri and how the
JH>> JH>> GOP was going to prevent blacks from voting?
JH>>
JH>> DP> No. I don't remember that. I guess I wasn't plugged in to
JH>> DP> the mother ship
JH>> DP> that day :)
JH>>
JH>> DP> I do remember however that there were radio ads from Charlton
JH>> DP> Heston that
JH>> DP> if the Democrats won, they were going to take away our guns.
JH>> DP> Is that one of
JH>> DP> the lies you were talking about?
JH>>
JH>> Do you deny that Sarah Brady, Charlie Schumer, Barbara Boxer and
JH>> the rest wouldn't happily get rid of all the guns if they could?
JH>> There is a ton of evidence proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that
JH>> guns do NOT contribute to crime, and in fact do just the opposite -
JH>> yet you still see prominent Dems blathering about gun control.
JH>> Bill Clinton even admitted that gun owning Democrats helped defeat
JH>> Democrats running for the House in 94. That's the year they lost
JH>> it by the way. Before you go too far down this road, let m tell
JH>> you that Charleton Heston is one of my heroes, that I am an
JH>> Endowment Life member of the NRA, and that gun control issues bear
JH>> heavily on who I for in EVERY election. I know from fighting this
JH>> battle for 30 years that Dems would outlaw guns in a heartbeat if
JH>> they could.
DP> Dude. You state on one hand that the Dems use fear tactics to get
DP> voters to
DP> vote for them. I cite to you a similar fear tactic that the Reps
DP> pulled,
DP> and you get all defensive about it. You don't hear me calling for
DP> gun
DP> control or anything of the sort. I only used that as an example
DP> of where
DP> the RNC does in fact use fear tactics to get people to vote for
DP> them.
JH>> JH>> how about when the DNC put TV ads out saying that
JH>> JH>> Republicans were going t keep seniors from getting their
JH>> JH>> medicine and force them out of their homes
JH>> JH>>
JH>> JH>> I'm not talking about the normal campaign rhetoric that both
JH>> JH>> sides engage I'm talking about deliberate lies designed to
JH>> JH>> literally scare the hell out voters. Lies designed to make
JH>> JH>> people so fearful of the other party they w completely
JH>> JH>> ignore the fact that all the promises made to them are never
JH>> JH>> ke and haven't been for decades. I won't stand for that
JH>> JH>> from my side, and I sure won't accept it from the left.
JH>>
JH>> DP> But that's exactly what Cheney did!! He said that if Kerry
JH>> DP> were to be elected, that we were sure to be attacked. He
JH>> DP> retracted it a f days later but the effect was the same. Tell
JH>> DP> me that that is not a l designed to make people fearful.
JH>>
JH>> And he's right. I believe that Kerry is so weak that it would've
JH>> made us prime target.
DP> So while the Dems use fear tactics, the Reps tell only the truth?
DP> A lot of
DP> people, Dems included feel that Bush is a chickenhawk and that
DP> he's
DP> deliberately or unwittingly putting us in harms way. Regardless
DP> of whether
DP> you feel he's right or not, it still is what it is; a fear tactic.
JH>> DP> The bottom line is that the 'liberals' or the Dems or the DNC
JH>> DP> do not have a lock on feeding talking points to it's
JH>> DP> followers. You say
JH>>
JH>> DP> won't stand that coming from your side, but I haven't seen
JH>> DP> you even acknowledge that it does in fact happen, so that
JH>> DP> makes me somewhat skeptical. You say you don't give a damn
JH>> DP> about what the DNC has to s but I don't see hold the RNC up to
JH>> DP> the light and scrutinize it either
JH>>
JH>> I am not on the list, by my choice, to receive email/fax/updates
JH>> from the and since I am a registered Republican, I don't such
JH>> things from the Dems.
DP> I'm not a registered Rep, yet I still got campaign mail from the
DP> RNC. In
DP> Texas, the voter registration does not collect party affiliation
DP> information.
JH>> But, I do watch all the political news shows on TV on Sunday, and
JH>> on the internet. As I said, MOST Republicans do not engage in the
JH>> sort of behavi I'm talking about. I know they get *accused of it*
JH>> all the time, but that isn't the same thing, is it? My Republican
JH>> ideals I learned back in the d of Barry Goldwater and haven't much
JH>> changed since then. Like I said, I do always agree with the GOP,
JH>> but I don't disagree much either.
DP> I'm going to be up front here and say that I avoid the TV news
DP> programs with
DP> a passion. I rely on print media or radio only. When I want
DP> information, I
DP> go out an look for it; I don't allow myself to get bombarded with
DP> it.
There are a couple of things I notice in your reply that you may or may not be
aware of. One, when Dems refer to Republicans they use terms like "right wing
extremists" or "radical right wing" and so on. Republicans, as a rule, don't
use such modifiers when they speak of Democrats. Dems do it so much, I don't
think they even know they're doing it anymore.
The other thing is that if you don't watch the political shows, then you are
missing out on a lot of the information that is just under the surface. You
can't pick up that kind of stuff from radio or the papers, only from hearing
the actual voice and seeing the person speak. Facial expression and body
language speak volumes, often far more than the words they utter. There are
also some very astute political commentators like Brit Hume, and Bill Crystal
you miss if you don't watch.
John
America: First, Last, and Always!
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