Text 18646, 166 rader
Skriven 2005-12-14 03:14:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST
Ärende: Copyright
=================
-=> Quoting Michiel Van Der Vlist to Frank Scheidt <=-

 MVDV>>> You are starting to sound like a troll again....
 >
 >> I don't see the connection ...

 MVDV>> Of course not. Trolls never admit to trolling.
 
 > So if I deny that you will say, "Trolls always deny it" ...

 MVDV> No, I will say: "Trolls never admit that trolls never admit to
 MVDV> trolling". ;-) 

So I won't bother denying it -- even though I'm not trolling ...

 > [sigh] ... My objective here is to inform you and to help you
 > to think straight.

 MVDV> I do not need help to think straight. I have had that ability for
 MVDV> about... 55 years I'd say.

Oh to be so young again ... [sigh] ... I still faintly remember 
those years ...
 
 > Is that a bad idea?

 MVDV> It is carrying coal to Newcastle.
 
But Newcastle, Indiana, *needs* coal ...

 > Is it an *impossible* goal?

 MVDV> No more than making a difference when carrying coal to Newcastle..

Indiana?

 MVDV>>> Yeah right. Well, call it a "mop-up" if you wish, you are
 MVDV>>> not winning it.
 >
 >> Certainly we're winning it -- based on body-count, alone, that
 >> is obvious ...

 MVDV>> Obviously body count alone is not a good measure to decide who
 MVDV>> the winner is. Ever heard of Phyrrus?
 
 > Sure ... so?  That's nothing like the victory we have won as
 > well as the one now in progress.

 MVDV> What victory?
 
I thought we were discussing Iraq ...

 >> ... we are a peaceful nation ...

 MVDV>> An objective observer would deny that.
 
 > But I *don't* deny it!  In fact *I* said it.

 MVDV> You are not an objective observer.

I thought we had finally settled that I *am* ...
 
 >>> Criminal elements in Iraq -- mostly foreign criminal elements.

 MVDV>>> I doubt that most of them are foreign.
 >
 >> I think the estimate is that they *are* mostly foreign

 MVDV>> There are no facts to support that theory.
 
 > I'm not aware of how they came to that conclusion.  I'm simply
 > reporting their conclusions.

 MVDV> IOW, you accept their words for gospel without checking the facts.

Not "for gospel", but until I have reason to suspect otherwise 
I'll accept what they say ... I even accept what *you* say, aside 
from some of your foolish statements which I know to be false.

 MVDV>>> It is like a hydra. For every one you kill, there are two more.
 >
 >> Poor analogy ... as soon as the Iraq people are fully in
 >> control of their own nation they'll start helping fight
 >> the criminals.

 MVDV>> I would not be too sure about that.
 
 > You always want evidence.

 MVDV> Can't help it, it is in my nature. And the more it conflicts with what
 MVDV> I already know, the stronger the evidence required.

Good!  You're learning ...
 
 > OK, here's some:  Yesterday a group of Iraqis *captured* an
 > Iraqi terrorist-leader and delivered him to the American troops.
 > That shows the Iraqi citizens are finally beginning to *act*
 > like free men.

 MVDV> One swallow does not a summer make. And why did they hand him over?
 MVDV> Why was he not tried by the Iraqis themselves?

I have no idea ... as for that "swallow" saying, in every summer 
there has to be the *first* swallow seen ...

 MVDV> Besides the idea that there is such a thing as "the Iraqi people" is a
 MVDV> fallacy. There are at least three people in Iraq; The Kurds, the
 MVDV> Sunnites and the Sjiites (sp?).

We are forming those disparate groups into one nation!  After 
all, the U.S. itself consists of Christians, Jews, Muslims (both 
Sunni and Shiite) as well as other religions.  We seem to be able 
to act in a civilized manner toward each other ... usually ...

 MVDV> These three do not get along well, to use an euphemism.

They *do* have some slight "disagreements" to euphemize myself.

 MVDV>> "Their" work?! It was *you* that created the mess in the first place.
 MVDV>> There were no active insurgents when Saddam was still in power.
 
 > Huh?  We created *no* mess.  We are mopping up the mess.

 MVDV> The mess that you created in the first place.
 
Sorry, but I'm not aware of that ...

 > Even the insurgents now have a type of freedom.

 MVDV> Great!

You approve of those murdering insurgents killing their fellow 
Arabs?   Most of their victims are Arabs, you know.

 MVDV>> Living conditions in Iraq after Gulf War one were far from ideal.
 MVDV>> But you helped them from the fire into the frying pan.
 
 > Ha!  Do you know what the obvious meaning is of that
 > expression you've reversed?

 MVDV> Yes, I see it now. Remember that I am not a native English speaker.
 MVDV> One can expect little mistakes like that.

I know, and I'm not criticizing you for that little slip.  It's 
just interesting.  Actually I admire your grasp of what to you is 
a foreign language ... 
 
 > It says we've taken a terrible situation and made it *less* terrible.

 MVDV> Doesn't look like it....

I think it does to the Iraqis who are beginning to admire us.
 
 > I presume you're aware of the expression, "From the frying pan
 > into the fire" which means exactly the opposite of what you've
 > said ... heh heh heh ...

 MVDV> Yes, see above.

OK ...

... "<Sigh> We have another flat," Tom said tiredly.

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