Text 40670, 208 rader
Skriven 2006-10-04 10:13:42 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 40576 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.0)
Ärende: pi
==========
04 Oct 06 00:26, mark lewis wrote to BOB KLAHN:


 MVDV>>>>>>> It does not matter if I agree or not any more than if I
 MVDV>>>>>>> agree that it would be better if pi would be equal to 3.0
 MVDV>>>>>>> instead of 3.12415.. It just isn't so.

 ml> [trim]

 RW>> true. Thus, the meaning of your statement leads one to
 RW>> think that you've stated that pi is 3.12xxx ... obviously

 BK>>  I thought the same thing at first reading. Looking it over
 BK>>  again, he actually did not say that.

 ml> on the contrary... he *did* state that... witness the following quote
 ml> of the original message... specifically the third paragraph that
 ml> michiel wrote... starts with "It does not matter"...

 ml> FWIW: it looks like a simple "fat finger" job to me but there is also
 ml> an accurate call on the mistake which mvdv isn't catching or seeing
 ml> ;)

Nor admitting to.


 ml> ====[ FIDONEWS
 ml> ]==============================================================
 ml> On: Sat 30 Sep 2006  0:02    (Arrd: Fri 29 Sep 2006 21:02)
 ml> By: Michiel van der Vlist
 ml> To: Jeff Smith
 ml> Re: terrorism
 ml> St:
 ml> =====================================================================
 ml> ======
 ml> === @REPLY: 1:14/0 451c8c69 @MSGID: 2:280/5555 451d9d6a @TID:
 ml> FMail/Win32 1.60 @CHRS: CP850 2 @TZUTC: 0200 Hello Jeff!

 ml> On Thursday September 28 2006 21:45, you wrote to me:

 MV>>>>> Jeff, you are starting to sound like a broken record. You try
 MV>>>>> to convey the attitude of a reasonable man with a balanced view
 MV>>>>> that takes all aspects in consideration,

 JS>>>>      I try to be. Wish I succeded more often though.

 MV>>> You succeed in /sounding/ reasonable.

 JS>>      Well, that's at least a start in the right direction.

 ml> Not really. Sounding reasonable is just going off at a tangent, it
 ml> bring you neither closer, nor farther away from /being/ reasonable.


 JS>>>>      Zone 1, zone 2, why should it matter?

 MV>>> Because it *does* matter, that is why. Zonal differences *are* a
 MV>>> factor whether you want them to be or not.

 JS>> Zonal differences are a factor just as long as we allow them to be.

 ml> Wishing it to go away is not going to make it go away.

 JS>> Don't you agree that it would be better if people were NOT set
 JS>> apart and divided by the zonal seperation that exists today?

 ml> It does not matter if I agree or not any more than if I agree that it
 ml> would be better if pi would be equal to 3.0 instead of 3.12415.. It
 ml> just isn't so.

 JS>> I know zones will not go away but that doesn't mean that we HAVE to
 JS>> keep letting them divide us any more than is absolutely nessesary.

 ml> Jeff, I have heard that before. "Let us unite". Let us join forces.
 ml> Etc, etc, It is always a euphemism for 'do it my way'.

 ml> And we have had enough of that.

 JS>>     I think you are of the mindset that we have been separate,
 JS>> separate is all that seems to have ever been, separate is normal,
 JS>> separate is the only way that things can work. Thoughts and ideas
 JS>> from people outside are not to be trusted. Their way is wrong, their
 JS>> way can't work. I make absolutely no claim to any special wisdom.
 JS>> All I am saying Michiel is that zonal differences are the current
 JS>> condition. That doesn't make them nessesary or even good. Let's work
 JS>> to make them go away.

 ml> Too late.

 MV>>> No, they were rejected because it would mean dropping the Z2 way
 MV>>> of moderating and thereby giving in to what the hard core who can
 MV>>> not accpet.. etc, etc.

 JS>>      I don't want to misunderstand you here. Are you saying that
 JS>> suggestions were rejected because it would mean the dropping of a
 JS>> way of doing things that is not working anyway?

 ml> No.

 ml> What I am saying is that we have had enough of being forced to do
 ml> things your (Z1) way. In tthe past we had no choice but to put up
 ml> with it, but now that we do not have to any more, we won't.

 JS>> What is more important, the welfare of both the Fidonews and the
 JS>> echo or appearing to be giving in to some small perceived group of
 JS>> troublemmakers? Why give them that much control? Why allow them to
 JS>> dictate how things will be?

 ml> Indeed. Why? Look at the trouble makers and look at the path lines.
 ml> *There* are the real ones allowing it.

 JS>> The solution it would seem would be for the current moderator to
 JS>> actively work to gain control of the echo and still do it in a zone
 JS>> 2 manner. To me there isn't a Z1 or a Z2 way of doing things. It
 JS>> should be whatever way works the best. The lesser-prefered
 JS>> alternative is to find a moderator that is both willing and capable
 JS>> of doing the job. It shouldn't matter what zone (s)he would be from.
 JS>> All that should matter is that the job gets done.

 ml> Broken record...

 MV>>>>> Don't like the Z2 way this is handled? Very well, then follow
 MV>>>>> the Z1 way of dealing with an echo that you think is badly
 MV>>>>> moderated: leave and start your own.

 JS>>>>      And what would that solve?

 MV>>> It would give you the kind of echo that you want without taking
 MV>>> from us what we want.

 JS>>      More segregation Michiel.

 ml> The segretation is a fact.

 JS>> That is NOT a step toward a solution

 ml> There is no solution.

 MV>>> FidoNet already is hopelessly segregated. I have given up all
 MV>>> hope of ever mending the differences between Z1 and Z2. The
 MV>>> hostilities, the insults and the arrogance, it has been going on
 MV>>> too intense and for too long now. There is a saying "to be
 MV>>> unknown is to unloved", but unfortunately the converse does not
 MV>>> always hold. To get to know each other better does not always
 MV>>> lead to people becoming friends.

 JS>>      Then let those that haven't given up and still have the desire
 JS>> to mend the differences a chance.

 ml> You are free to start your own interzonal echo and give it a try...

 JS>>      No, getting to know each other better doesn't guarentee
 JS>> friendship. Never has so far at least.  But getting to know each
 JS>> other better does help us understand each other better.

 ml> And unfortunately he better understanding does NOT lead to us getting
 ml> closer. On the contrary.

 MV>>> If this were a marriage I would file for divorce now on the
 MV>>> grounds of unmendable incompatibilities.


 JS>>      If this were a marriage my daughter would be looking at me
 JS>> funny. <g>


 ml> What I mean tot say is that sometimes it is better to stop attempting
 ml> to mend the unmendable and just let each go his own way.


 JS>>>>      The echo for that already exists and should be done here.

 MV>>> Your opinion to which you are entitled. It is not going to
 MV>>> happen.

 JS>>      If we can get enough people to accept those differences that we
 JS>> cannot change an work to change those that we can.  We can make it
 JS>> happen.

 ml> Jeff, give it up. We can not make it happen any more than we can put
 ml> a crocodile and a rabit in the same cage and expect to find both
 ml> alive next day.


 ml> Cheers, Michiel

 ml> === GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 ml>  ! Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
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 ml> @PATH: 280/5555 123/500

 ml> )\/(ark

 ml>  * Origin:  (1:3634/12)


Hmmmm. I think you quoted the wrong message.


               R\%/itt


... ­Herman Nuet habla mierda holandesa del toro!

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