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Text 6088, 226 rader
Skriven 2005-07-15 18:47:26 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6080 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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eeye is not posting instructions on how to kill computer users, they are =
posting details of flaws in consumer product.

And I picked the SMB flaw as an example because it's the kind of flaw = that's
likely to be the next worm vector.

As for the question of eeye providing protection and at the same time =
providing details of a flaw, how did you feel about the details of that =
bicycle lock that could be opened with a ball point pen? Did you have an =
issue with those details being released on the national news because I =
thought that was a good thing. It showed the public just how piss poor a = lock
that junk was. I would however imagine the lock manufacturer has an = attitude
similar to yours, that the information never should have been = released and I
would imagine they would use the same bs arguments you = are using.

Consumers have a right to know the details of the flaws found in = consumer
products. Be it a kids car seat, a bicycle lock, software, a = circuit breaker,
their cars, whatever.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net...
     Do you really believe that your doors and windows protect you from =
outright attack?  If so you are surely going to be sorry.  You escape = harm
simply because you one attacks you.  Post instructions on how to do = so and
thereby lower the threshold and you will increase the likelihood = of attack. 
If someone like eeye came to you and said that they would = sell you protection
and at the same time provided attackers the = information they need, how you
would feel about that extortion?

     Where do you get the idea that detailed instructions are missing?  =
Maybe the description isn't sufficient for you but I assure you that it = is
sufficient for others.  And this example, which I'm sure you picked = because
you thought it weak on details, is not representitive.  If you = want to
demonstrate that they do not cause the great harm that they do = you will need
to show that they never do this not that there exists a = single instance where
you thought they did not.

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net...
    First off, if the security of my home was compromised by a flaw in a =
consumer product I would fully support the posting of the details of = that
flaw.

    Second, the detailed exploit instructions are not there, only a flaw =
description is there and only that description is what I and others want =
access to. I believe the attached is the detailed exploit instructions = and
they are only for a DOS not for the remote root exploit. Of course = since you
claim this is already available to all of us at the eeye URL I = linked to you
shouldn't have an issue with me posting it here, huh?

    Geo.
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net...
         Such bullshit.  It's not just that you are paranoid, you are =
being silly.  Please post the detailed instructions for anyone to break = into
your home and kill your wife and family.  You shouldn't keep this = information
exclusive to you.  Others may find this useful to protect = themselves.  If it
puts your family at risk, so what.  "Information" = like this should be free
for all.

         As for the eeye press release to which you refer, it sure does =
provide detailed instructions.  It may be that you don't recognize the =
terminology but it is there, specific, and detailed.

      Rich

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>eeye is not posting instructions on how =
to kill=20
computer users, they are posting details of flaws in consumer=20
product.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And I picked the SMB flaw as an example =
because=20
it's the kind of flaw that's&nbsp;likely to be the next worm=20
vector.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the question of eeye providing =
protection=20
and at the same time providing details of a flaw, how did you feel about =
the=20
details of that bicycle lock that could be opened with a ball point pen? = Did
you=20
have an issue with those details being released on the national news = because
I=20
thought that was a good thing. It showed the public just how piss poor a =
lock=20
that junk was. I would however imagine the lock manufacturer has an =
attitude=20
similar to yours, that the information never should have been released = and
I=20
would imagine they would use the same bs arguments you are =
using.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Consumers have a right to know the =
details of the=20
flaws found in consumer products. Be it a kids car seat, a bicycle lock, =

software, a circuit breaker, their cars, whatever.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net">news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you really believe =
that your=20
  doors and windows protect you from outright attack?&nbsp; If so you =
are surely=20
  going to be sorry.&nbsp; You escape harm simply because you one =
attacks=20
  you.&nbsp; Post instructions on how to do so and thereby lower the =
threshold=20
  and you will increase the likelihood of attack.&nbsp; If someone like =
eeye=20
  came to you and said that they would sell you protection and at the =
same time=20
  provided attackers the information they need, how you would feel about =
that=20
  extortion?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Where do you get the =
idea that=20
  detailed instructions are missing?&nbsp; Maybe the description isn't=20
  sufficient for you but I assure you that it is sufficient for =
others.&nbsp;=20
  And this example, which I'm sure you picked because you thought it =
weak on=20
  details, is not representitive.&nbsp; If you want to demonstrate that =
they do=20
  not cause the great harm that they do you will need to show that they =
never do=20
  this not that there exists a single instance where you thought they =
did=20
  not.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net">news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First off, if the security of my =
home was=20
    compromised by a flaw in a consumer product I would fully support =
the=20
    posting of the details of that flaw.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Second, the&nbsp;detailed exploit =
instructions=20
    are not there, only a flaw description is there and only that =
description is=20
    what I and others want access to. I believe the attached is=20
    the&nbsp;detailed exploit&nbsp;instructions and they are only for a =
DOS not=20
    for the remote root exploit. Of course since you claim this is =
already=20
    available to all of us&nbsp;at the eeye URL I linked to you =
shouldn't have=20
    an issue with me posting it here, huh?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net">news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Such bullshit.&nbsp; =
It's not=20
      just that you are paranoid, you are being silly.&nbsp; Please post =
the=20
      detailed instructions for anyone to break into your home and kill =
your=20
      wife and family.&nbsp; You shouldn't keep this information =
exclusive to=20
      you.&nbsp; Others may find this useful to protect =
themselves.&nbsp; If it=20
      puts your family at risk, so what.&nbsp; "Information" like this =
should be=20
      free for all.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for the eeye =
press release to=20
      which you refer, it sure does provide detailed instructions.&nbsp; =
It may=20
      be that you don't recognize the terminology but it is there, =
specific, and=20
      detailed.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY=
></HTML>

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